Reader Comments

Scoble (hardly an "Apple syncophant" on the AppleTV: "I bought an Apple TV tonight. "I’ve watched Ask a Ninja, Rocketboom, my show, and Ze Frank on it so far. "Works as advertised. Easy to setup. It rocks. "I think I’m going to use this almost wholly to look at Internet video shows. "The integration with iTunes really is great. This is a winner. I take back anything I wrote about it before. "Oh, and it also supports 1080i HD."

"Microsoft says it has licensed digital fingerprinting technology from Audible Magic to help it filter out copyrighted content, and it will be implemented over the next two months." Great. So if I post a clip of somene's wedding video and they're playing "Sweet Caroline" in the background, it'll get flagged as illegal? This is all so effin' ridiculous.

The difficulty with saying an Apple product works as advertised is that there are always two messages: 1. This product has X product features. 2. This product will save the world, because it is the most amazing product ever produced. Scoble is right to say the product works as advertised in the first sense. Paul is also right to say that the product does not work as advertised in the second sense.

Scoble is an idiot. "This is all so effin' ridiculous." Yes, it is. It is ridiculous that you can comment on something before seeing it in action. You don't even have any details of how this is going to work. Moreover, it's going to be a private beta. Ridiculous!

@lotsa Scoble always raves about the latest big gadget. He was big into the Xbox 360 media extender (which is much more attactive and useful than the AppleTV, IMO) when it came out, and he is naturally excited to try out a new gadget. Wait a couple weeks to hear a more objective review from him. I won't touch the AppleTV with a ten foot pole - not because I don't like Apple, but because the AppleTV is worthless to me. If I want to play content on my TV, I will get an Xbox 360 and use it. With the supposed price drop this year, the Xbox will cost the same (or less) than the AppleTV, have 5x more features - like DVR, IPTV, HD-DVD playback, Amazing amount of online content you can buy *directly* from the Xbox interface, and finally, play games. The updated Xbox will be quieter and use less power. I've read different reviews on the AppleTV, and none of them, even from Apple-biased sources, say the AppleTV is a "must-have" item. They say that it is a good device if you want to stream iTunes content to your TV, but if you have a large collection videos in different formats (which would be me), you're out of luck. I certainly don't want to recode all my videos to the inferior Quicktime format! Not to mention I use Windows Home Server as a media server-all my videos and photos are on it. With an Xbox or another media extender, I can immediately stream the content to my TV. I would be more open to purchasing the AppleTV if Apple would *open up* the AppleTV to allow it to stream content from a generic media server, and *not just iTunes*. The iTunes-AppleTV exclusive link turns me off to the whole thing the most. I want something that will play anything stored in *my* format, anywhere *I* specify. Xbox 360 doesn't play all formats, but it does a *much* better job than AppleTV.

"Paul is also right to say that the product does not work as advertised in the second sense." Please specify what product features have been "advertised" that do not work on the Apple TV. Thank you. @Sharky: I'm talking about the concept, not Microsoft's particular implementation. The potential downside of "digital fingerprinting" has been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. In the situation I described (and others) it has the potential for substantial unintended consequences. That is why I (and other content producers) are very wary of it. There's no need for you to fly off the handle. I'm simply advocating some use of common sense, and not a heavy-handed use of technology to solve what is largely a nonexistent "problem" that has more to do with corporate greed than anything actually "damaging".

"@Sharky: I'm talking about the concept, not Microsoft's particular implementation." 1. They're only testing the technology. 2. You have to wait to see how it is implemented before you make snarky comments about it. BTW, Gizmodo, a semi-Apple-biased source actually recommended the XBox 360 over Apple TV. (http://tinyurl.com/2a82dy)

For £200 I can buy an Xbox 360 or an AppleTV. From my point of view its a no-brainer for the 360. I fail to see what the AppleTV offers me for the same money?

"Scoble is an idiot." I guess when you can't intelligently discuss the relative merits of the point(s) being made, it's easier to criticize the person or resort to name-calling. That's something I'd expect from *cough*Waethorn*cough*, not you, Sharky. ;-) Did you think Scoble was an "idiot" when he was a product evangelist for Microsoft, too? Just asking...

So, the Apple TV is simply a wireless way to show iTunes content on a TV? That's neat and all, but I think the lack of DVR capabilities is crippling for a lot of people. It separates content, which is undesirable, in my opinion, especially for 300 big ones. Add that in (with a 120 GB HDD instead of 40 GB) and I'd go for it. If you think about it, someone could go out and purchase an Xbox 360 Core for $300 (same price as Apple TV) and they get gaming, DVD playback, and Media Center capabilities (TV w/ DVR, computer content, and radio). To me, that is much more desirable (as long as you have some soundproof casing for the 360 :P). It seems better to me to have one box for everything than to have a Cable Box, a DVD player, and a "computer box," as most people would probably call it. However, for the everyday consumer, it's great. It's easy to setup and you get HD streaming content on the TV without any complicated setup. The only complaint I think consumers would have is that it doesn't have standard composite output out of the box for compatibility with older TVs. But, judging by the attitude and general tech freak nature of Apple enthusiasts, I think most probably already have an HDTV. I could be wrong though. Only time will tell.

"Did you think Scoble was an "idiot" when he was a product evangelist for Microsoft, too? Just asking..." I'll be honest here - no. But, lately, I've been put off by his ever-growing ego and his need to constantly attack companies. I really don't trust his judgment. He has the habit of making controversial statements to increase his hits and taking them back a week later. http://www.neopoleon.com/home/blogs/tech/archive/2007/03/18/24826.aspx Rory is (supposedly) the person who replaced Scoble at Microsoft.

""Oh, and it also supports 1080i HD." Meh, 720P beats 1080i anyday. I'll stick to watching movies and TV on my Xbox. I mean there's that whole complicated process of plugging in a cord and all, but once you get past that, it really is a breeze. 200US is quite a bit for something that is a mere wireless interface with TV-out. Oh, and 'taking back' things that you say is pretty bad in terms of integrity. Who's to say when the new wears off that he won't take back his take back?

"Great. So if I post a clip of somene's wedding video and they're playing "Sweet Caroline" in the background, it'll get flagged as illegal?" Why would it? You are taking a baseless assumption and blowing it out of proportion. The fingerprinting uses fourier signal analysis to determine the fingerprint. An 'over-the-air' playback with dominant noise in front of it looks nothing like the digital recording of the same track when you look at it at that level. Now, if you had the song playing as your DVD menu cover audio, it would most definitely be Illegal.

"Please specify what product features have been "advertised" that do not work on the Apple TV." this is what "didn't work" into the specs: when Jobs announced it, it was supposed to have a much bigger hard drive than 40GB. according to Paul's screenshots and Apple's own websites, that's the standard now. that's pretty sad for HD video. i'll wait for Codename: Zephyr thank you very much! there's talk that Microsoft will also tie in content from Soapbox and make it available across multiple devices (including Zune and XBOX 360). supposedly Flash w/ VP6 is going to be the codec they use (ie. Soapbox videos will stay in their native format across devices). this is preferable to using such an inefficient technique as downloading static files, such as Quicktime video podcast media. "Oh, and it also supports 1080i HD." too bad Apple doesn't carry any videos to buy in that format yet. who the heck cares about movie trailers in 1080i too? they're actually in 1080p, but who wants to watch them scaled down to interlaced 1080i format when there's also 720p trailers available?! "So if I post a clip of somene's wedding video and they're playing "Sweet Caroline" in the background, it'll get flagged as illegal?" that's a pretty stupid argument, because you can't legally post commercial music for public consumption. sorry, but it's true. AppleTV: unimpressive. just another waste of money from Apple. Fisher Price might as well have invented a Media Center Extender and sold it to Apple....then again, maybe they did! ;) XP

And with the thing about Scoble. I enjoy that people make arguments based on prior motivations. 'Well he used to be a MS fanboi, so if he says Apple stuff is good, that must mean it's REALLY good.' Jobs himself could release an open letter praising the crap out of Vista and it wouldn't change my opinion of the OS. People like Scoble don't say things b/c they mean what they say, they say things because of what the effect will be. He's kicking sand, big deal. I don't think I've 'read' a review on a device in 5 years. I honestly don't care what the reviewer has to say. I 'look' at reviews, for pictures. Reviews give me a chance to see it for myself w/o having to buy it. That's why I came to this site a few years back for longhorn info. If you haven't noticed, Paul takes pictures of bloody everything. So Scoble can say whatever he wants, what he needs to do is break that bad boy in half and rip the heatsinks off. Let's see what she's got inside. Authentic photo's don't lie or play tricksy.

"Microsoft security strategy director Jeff Jones this week published a report comparing the security vulnerability profile for various high-profile operating systems in the 90 days of their existence. Surprisingly, Vista came out in front" Why is it "surprising" when a director who works for "Company X" comes out with a report which says that "Company X's" product is superior to everyone else's?

"Why is it "surprising" when a director who works for "Company X" comes out with a report which says that "Company X's" product is superior to everyone else's?" and why is it so common for Apple users to dispute the facts when they are also present on Secunia's website? losta, you like using Secunia as a reference....back me up on this one. ;) XP

nim55, is this suprising? http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3667201 "Microsoft is frequently dinged for having insecure products, with security holes and vulnerabilities. But Symantec (Quote), no friend of Microsoft, said in its latest research report that when it comes to widely-used operating systems, Microsoft is doing better overall than its leading commercial competitors."

funny, but when i use Microsoft's own propoganda as proof of security (even though the studies are often funded by third-parties), it falls on deaf ears. RHEL is behind Microsoft in security updating schedules, and Ubuntu was even way behing OSX in other studies. could it be that the rest of the non-Microsoft IT world is just in a state of complete denial? so really what this says is, which vendor does a better job to help protect their customers? i smell FUD frying.... XP

@will:"I enjoy that people make arguments based on prior motivations." I've been reading (and enjoying) Scoble for years, even when he was a Thurrott-like Microsoft shill. Like Paul, he's always been a good read (even when he was on the payroll). Now that he's free to say what he REALLY thinks, I believe he's even better, but his "prior motivations" have nothing to do with my respect for his work.

@Nate: "I certainly don't want to recode all my videos to...Quicktime format! " Who says you would have to? From the AppleTV website: ---------- Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) iTunes Store purchased video: 320 by 240 pixels or 640 by 480 pixels MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps) Audio formats supported AAC (16 to 320 Kbps); protected AAC (from iTunes Store); MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps); MP3 VBR; Apple Lossless; AIFF; WAV Photos formats supported JPEG, BMP, GIF, TIFF, PNG ------ I don't see anything in there about having to convert anything to "Quicktime" (.MOV) format.

"this is what "didn't work" into the specs: when Jobs announced it, it was supposed to have a much bigger hard drive than 40GB. " When Jobs announced it, he didn't even mention a HD AT ALL! The hard drive was later revealed by a Disney exec. Nice try making things up.

"Nice try making things up." Thought you'd be familiar with it, considering that it's your version of "fact checking". :p

"I don't see anything in there about having to convert anything to "Quicktime" (.MOV) format." learn to read between the lines. it only supports Quicktime, and likely only Quicktime's implementation of MPEG-4 (that's speculating, but i would bet money it's accurate). if you have videos in other formats they're not supported as the specs revealed. "When Jobs announced it, he didn't even mention a HD AT ALL! The hard drive was later revealed by a Disney exec." are you talking about the video from MacWorld? no, it wasn't mentioned there, but there were interviews and spec leaks and the announced hard drive was going to be 120GB, not a paltry 40GB!! the point is, they promised one thing and delivered yet another disappointment (much like the rest of it). Steve Ballmer moment: $300!?!? for this?! .....as much of a money trap as, well....OSX XP

@lotsa All my videos are either .avi (straight from camera) and .wmv (superior compression technology - I did my own comparison between H.264 Quicktime and .wmv, and .wmv had fewer artifacts than the H.264). If I were to get the Apple TV, I would have to recode gigabytes of videos to the specific format that AppleTV will allow. Unacceptable. I also encode in 1080p - 1920 X 1200 resolution. AppleTV won't accept that resolution. Don't give the argument that 720p is indistinguishable between 1080p, I have 20-19 vision and I *do* notice the differences.

"it only supports Quicktime" WOW! i flubbed on that one. the AppleTV doesn't support standard Quicktime codecs after all - it ONLY supports MPEG-4 Simple Profile and H.264 (MPEG 4 Level 10). that means you can't view any videos with the "non-HD" codecs such as Sorenson Video 3 (which the non-HD trailers on Apple's own site use). this is yet another expected disappointment by Apple. looks like re-encoding videos to MPEG-4 is going to be an standard course of action for AppleTV owners that want to watch videos from other sources than iTunes. XP

"nim55, is this suprising? http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3667201" Sharky, Waethorn: It seems like you guys are very selective in how you read these articles. Yes, I just read it, thanks. It says that Windows had 39 vulnerabilities and Mac OS X had 43. But it also said that of the Windows vulnerabilities, 12 were high-prioriy or severe, as opposed to only 1 of the Max OS X vulnerabilities. Are you crowing over that??? The article did credit Microsoft for taking only 21 days to fix the problems as opposed to 66 days for Apple. But I would think that that difference is largely due to the fact that Microsoft had to urgently deal with so many high-priority or severe vulnerabilities.

"Microsoft: Vista Safer than OS X, Linux" Must be because Vista has such a small market share. Not even Crackers are touching it .. *LOL* "I'll be reviewing the Apple TV on the SuperSite for Windows [..] you can expect something more realistic and honest " Of course you are. That's why it is called "SuperSite for Windows", isn't it? BTW: Your usage of 'realistic' and 'honest' are funny..

"The article did credit Microsoft for taking only 21 days to fix the problems as opposed to 66 days for Apple. But I would think that that difference is largely due to the fact that Microsoft had to urgently deal with so many high-priority or severe vulnerabilities." and yet Apple still hasn't changed their ways after only just getting around to fixing some of January's huge security flaws 2 whole months later. i'd say the only successful part of MoAB is that it proved that Apple is still lax in security. overall, it hasn't made Apple improve itself one bit, which is kind of sad for Apple users. "Not even Crackers are touching it .." they did. at least they said they did - it ended up being a complete hoax too. "Must be because Vista has such a small market share." and i'm sure that the Mac community is twiddling their thumbs while their market share dwindles at less than 2.5%. XP

@Vista Safer than OSX, Linux Surprisingly, Vista shipped with vulnerabilities that existed as early as 2004 and needed patching the day it hit retail shelves... @MSN Soapbox / YouTube: Microsoft is only trying to cut down the number of lawsuit vectors people can use against them. It's not like they care about intellectual property, unless its their own. @AppleTV: I like many Apple products, but I will not be buying an AppleTV. A frontrow-enabled MacMini with the appropriate cables can accomplish much more than an AppleTV can. The nearly-unlimited flexibility alone is worth paying more than the AppleTV. @Sony EuroPS3 Launch Thank goodness. Now people have boxes to sit on while they wait for for more Wii consoles to come in. @Oracle: Yawn. @Yahoo Widgets: Yahoo got into the game too late. No one cares about your widget system, Yahoo. people have Dashboard Widgets and Vista Gadgets. @Xbox support: Considering that the majority of Xbox Live users are twelve-year-olds who say "penor" on web forums, I'd imagine any CSR working in support answers the phone with a glazed-over persona. It's not bad customer service, it's survival. @Mozilla Firefox: Anyone running Firefox either had the tech savvy to be aware of its existence and download it, or had a tech savvy acquaintance install it for them. In both cases, getting the latest version/patches is likely something that was already done. No need to sound the alarm, Paul.

looks like bonch is back. lets put him back under the bridge shall we?: "Surprisingly, Vista shipped with vulnerabilities that existed as early as 2004 and needed patching the day it hit retail shelves..." flat out wrong. sorry, but you can wish all you want, it never happened. "Microsoft is only trying to cut down the number of lawsuit vectors people can use against them. It's not like they care about intellectual property, unless its their own." wrong. they protect all of their customers and partners under an IP umbrella. "The nearly-unlimited flexibility alone is worth paying more than the AppleTV." i'm sure you were quoting "nearly-unlimited flexibility" when Apple was using G5's. too bad that didn't last too long eh? "Now people have boxes to sit on while they wait for for more Wii consoles to come in." why not just use a Wii instead of that sad excuse for a computer - the Mac Mini. i bet it'd run circles around it. >:D "Oracle: Yawn" finally we agree on something. "Yahoo got into the game too late." sorry, but that's just completely wrong. Yahoo Gadgets are based off Konfabulator, which is what OSX Widgets are copied from. Konfabulator has been around long before OSX too. "Considering that the majority of Xbox Live users are twelve-year-olds who say "penor" on web forums" taken from your own personal experience i take it? i bet you can relate. "Anyone running Firefox either had the tech savvy to be aware of its existence and download it, or had a tech savvy acquaintance install it for them." again, WRONG! so much software now has some kind of installer for Firefox and/or Google, it's hard not to be hit with it as an unexpected bundled app. XP

"looks like re-encoding videos to MPEG-4 is going to be an standard course of action for AppleTV owners that want to watch videos from other sources than iTunes." The latest version of QuickTime has an "Export for AppleTV" option to simplify that process. You're absolutely right that some video will have to be converted. From PC Magazine's review: ----- "Oh, and in case you're wondering whether you could take, say, an XVID file of the movie Cars and convert it to MPEG 4 via QuickTime Pro and then watch it without any issues on Apple TV: yes, you can (you criminal). "Now, let's talk about what you can't do. Want to take videos you recorded on your digital camera, throw them in iTunes and then watch them on your televison? Not so fast. Apple reps were quick to point out to us this important rule: If it plays on your iPod, it should play on Apple TV, BUT if it plays in iTunes, it doesn't necessarily play on Apple TV. Some files require transcoding into the appropriate format. This was certainly true of video footage I took on my camera—it showed up (and played) in my iTunes library, but it didn't even show up as a playable file in the Apple TV menu. Folks who wish to view these types of files on Apple TV need to convert the footage to an Apple TV-friendly format in the latest version of QuickTime." ------ Should be a fairly painless process with QTPro, though. I already have clients coming to me with various videos from digital "still" cameras that they want edited--and they have to be converted from whatever bastardized MPEG format they have into something usable. It's a one-click process. I don't see this as a big deal, really--given the huge numbers of formats out there, it's almost impossible to support *everything* out of the box (although I'll admit, there could be more than there is).

"I've been reading (and enjoying) Scoble for years, even when he was a Thurrott-like Microsoft shill. Like Paul, he's always been a good read (even when he was on the payroll). Now that he's free to say what he REALLY thinks, I believe he's even better, but his "prior motivations" have nothing to do with my respect for his work." Scoble always said what was on his mind, even if that was bashing MS for when they didn't do something right, which he did plenty of times when he worked for MS. I feel that is when he was at his best. He didn't pull punches then, and since he had the back-story, his criticism was usually right on (or his praise). However, Scoble has become one of the most egotistical of the new 2.0 bloggers out there. Worse than Paul, he goes all over the place, depending on his mood, and who is paying him. Look at the Pay Per Post scandal, or the fact that he mentions Seagate every five seconds, because they are his sponsor. At least when he was part of MS, everyone knew that the was a Softie, so it was easy to discredit him. Now he barely mentions when he is getting paid to do his boring video gig. Unfortunately, this guy doesn't blog anymore, but he does an awesome job of imitating Scoble. Almost too good. http://scoobietron.wordpress.com/ As far as the AppleTV goes, I'm not very moved. No DVD player, no PVR, substandard remote, 40GB. Not nearly enough for me to bite. And the idea really should be convergence, rather than add yet another device to your entertainment system.

"As far as the AppleTV goes, I'm not very moved. No DVD player, no PVR, substandard remote, 40GB. Not nearly enough for me to bite. And the idea really should be convergence, rather than add yet another device to your entertainment system." I'm actually inclined to agree with you. This product looks like a "Microsoft Version One" effort (it's very Zune-like. Good, but not great, interesting but not exciting). While I'm eagerly anticipating what will happen down the road (since Apple has defined this as one of their four "platforms" now, along with the Mac, iPod and iPhone), I'm disappointed that more effort wasn't made into getting it really REALLY right the first time.

"Scoble always said what was on his mind, even if that was bashing MS for when they didn't do something right, which he did plenty of times when he worked for MS. " Scoble's criticism of Microsoft was usually pretty tepid (again, like Paul), or taken back later (again, like Paul) after "clarification" from some mysterious source at MS. I'll agree, though, that it was fun to watch him occasionally bite the hand that fed him. He does tend to grab on to a subject like a hungry dog on a steak and not let go. I got sick of the constant John Edwards drumbeat a while back. Scoble may have lost a bit of his edge (and his videos are way too long, not to mention god-awful boring and self-indulgent), but he's still better than 98% of what's out there. Maybe more.

"Scoble's criticism of Microsoft was usually pretty tepid " Scoble actually gained popularity while at MS exactly for that reason - that he said what he really felt (it had to be tepid because he couldn't really bite off the hand that fed him). Somewhere along the line, his ego got the better of him and he went on a rampage, bashing companies for no reason and ridiculing individuals who disagreed with him. His crowning glory (in my opinion) was a series of five back-to-back posts that talked about how Microsoft lied about WL Spaces. The sixth post was an apology. "This product looks like a "Microsoft Version One" effort (it's very Zune-like. Good, but not great, interesting but not exciting). " I agree.

"Should be a fairly painless process with QTPro, though." i haven't looked, but does that mean that users have to pay yet again (to buy Quicktime Pro) just to be able to do that? i'm sorry, but that's just laughable. XP

@Waethorn Yes, you have to pay for QTPro. In fact, if you own QTPro 6, you can't install QT 7; you have to either forfeit your license or pay more money and buy QT Pro 7. Disgusting.

I forgot to add that you can stick with QTPro 6 if you don't install QT 7. However, you can't use QT 7 and QT Pro 6 at the same time.

@Vandil: "Considering that the majority of Xbox Live users are twelve-year-olds who say "penor" on web forums," Hey Kettle. I have the Pot on hold on line 2. Something about a color.........

@lotsa: "Apple reps were quick to point out to us this important rule: If it plays on your iPod, it should play on Apple TV, BUT if it plays in iTunes, it doesn't necessarily play on Apple TV." I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted here, but that's really poor form, especially for Apple. iPod/iTunes work flawlessly together. Shouldn't what was originally iTV (now Apple TV) be 100% compatible in that ecosystem as well?

"Yes, you have to pay for QTPro. In fact, if you own QTPro 6, you can't install QT 7; you have to either forfeit your license or pay more money and buy QT Pro 7. Disgusting." ya i knew about that. what i find also equally laughable is that you have to pay to get full-screen playback. how funny! (read: sad) not to mention that you have to pay for professional codecs on top of that. XP

AppleTV: Encoding doesn't bother me, I've always done it in those specifications anyways. I use VLC, best video player out there that will play anything you throw at it no matter the platform. I still won't buy this until it hits $99, because unless there's changes to XBOX media extender (navigation is annoying when you have 800+ episodes of TV shows and they're all listed in a giant list) I'll just stick with my mini-dvi to s-video adapter for viewing media on my television. Security in OS X: Does Apple need to take security more seriously? Of course. Do the bugs bother me? Not really, then again, neither do Microsoft's. Like you said Weathorn, we have a 2.5% market share, if that. Where's the profit in targeting our platform for these authors? That's what a majority of malware, viruses, spam bots are in it for. Profit. Unless there's a drastic change in market share (highly unlikely) I don't see things changing on a scale that really effects us in any shape or form. @Play station 3 surpassing Wii sales by 2008 Not likely, there's no indication to think otherwise from the numbers so far. I suspect by the end of the decade Wii interest will dwindle but most underestimate how big of an impact this console is having with casual gamers of all generations. Nintendo just passed the 6 million worldwide sales mark, in 4 months. I don't see the PS3 catching on in a mass scale similar to Nintendo until a price drop occurs, and executives have already stated don't expect this until late 2008 at the earliest due to the complex manufacturing process and R&D that went into the system.

"Does Apple need to take security more seriously? Of course." Apple might not have a target on their face right now, but the head to put it on sure is big! (translation: they have a big ego) funny about all this talk about Wii and PS3. on one side, we have Gabe Newell of Valve Software saying "the PS3 is a complete disaster and should be withdrawn", while Chris Hecker of Maxis calls the Wii "a piece of sh!t" (i sh!t you not). i don't think i've read anything that critical about the XBOX 360 IMHO. it's like the "Linux vs. Mac" of consoles. XP

@Weathorn I'll probably be the only Mac user to say this, but if security does some how become an enormous issue with Apple then good. Serves them right for thinking a mutant UNIX kernel is bulletproof. Hopefully they'll change with Leopard (in my opinion it's looking like a lackluster upgrade which I won't use any time soon) but I doubt it. The reason for the 360 not taking flack is because well besides it's occasional hardware failure issues, it's the best console for both the end user and developer. The developer tools for the 360 are suberb, whereas the developer tools for the PS3 are difficult to use and generally a difficult system to program for. The Wii dev kit is relatively easy to utilize but the technical limitations don't appeal to many developers. I wouldn't call the Wii a POS, because in the past generations, good developers used the limits they had as barriers. and each time, they would push those limits further. this has been something lacking in the last 2 generations of gaming. Because developers have had limits beyond their developing capability. Now they have something in their capability and don't know how to push it so they call the machine a piece of ***? Whatever floats their boat, I guess he's just not up to the challenge. I ramble to much, sorry heh =) Have a good weekend

"i haven't looked, but does that mean that users have to pay yet again (to buy Quicktime Pro) just to be able to do that?" No, it was included FREE in the latest update. But how typical of you to criticize before checking (see, there's this thing called "Google"...).

"Yes, you have to pay for QTPro. In fact, if you own QTPro 6, you can't install QT 7; you have to either forfeit your license or pay more money and buy QT Pro 7. Disgusting." So you're advocating for free software? I guess when new versions (not minor updates) of software come out, they should always be free (by your logic). I can hear you now: "Yes, you have to pay for Windows Vista. In fact, if you own Windows XP, you can't install Windows Vista, you have to either forfeit your licence or pay more money and buy Windows Vista. Disgusting" The update that included AppleTV encoding was free with the latest update to QuickTime 7. If you already had a Pro key for 7, then it was a gimme.

"The Wii dev kit is relatively easy to utilize but the technical limitations don't appeal to many developers." in the full quote, Hecker boo'ed Miyamoto on stage and called it a GameCube with a new controller. the Wii does definitely have a better GPU than the GameCube, but spec-wise, is no better than an XBOX [1]. "there's this thing called "Google"..." much like Apple products, i won't touch Google with a 50-foot pole. "Yes, you have to pay for Windows Vista. In fact, if you own Windows XP, you can't install Windows Vista, you have to either forfeit your licence or pay more money and buy Windows Vista." now there's a bit of truthiness! you can dual-boot Vista with XP. for upgrade versions, the upgrade must go on the same computer as the previous XP (the installation checks for that) and it WILL overwrite your previous installation. however, you can install XP on two separate drives on the same computer and upgrade one to Vista. if you're referring to the point in the EULA that states that you can't use a previous version of Windows with a Windows Vista license, that's true, in that you must have a valid previous license for that older copy. Microsoft reps say that they made this distinction on the EULA to differentiate new consumer copies from those obtained through Volume Licensing which automatically allow for downgrade rights (they are licenses for "Windows Client Desktop OS - current or previous version"). a license gives you certain rights, and a Windows Vista license only gives you rights to use Windows Vista. however, a Windows Vista license + a Windows XP license will allow you to use both. "So you're advocating for free software?" i'm advocating that Apple include full-screen playback for free. XP

"@Play station 3 surpassing Wii sales by 2008 Not likely, there's no indication to think otherwise from the numbers so far. I suspect by the end of the decade Wii interest will dwindle but most underestimate how big of an impact this console is having with casual gamers of all generations. " I wouldn't say that, it's 11AM on a Saturday, and I'm midly hungover. I'm not going to pick up my wiimote and make my headache worse, but Resistance is looking pretty good. Plus, the thing I worried about with the Wii is happening, it's starting to feel less 'innovative' and more 'gimmicky'. Games arn't using the controller in a way that enhances anything. It's just a bunch of minigames, that have you either tracing a circle, trying to reel in a fish, or anything else that would make you look like an idiot while someone watched you play. The advantage Nintendo has is the quality of the controller's sensor devices. Make them more accurate so the feeling isn't so gimicky. --- ""Yes, you have to pay for Windows Vista. In fact, if you own Windows XP, you can't install Windows Vista, you have to either forfeit your licence or pay more money and buy Windows Vista. Disgusting"" When quicktime's engineering staff breaks 5,000 then we can talk about throwing a few bills their way.

Frankly, I am surprised at how poorly XBox 360 has performed in the market. It never really challenged PS2 the way Wii has. Maybe improved hardware reliability, Live for Windows (or whatever it's called) , IPTV, and lower cost.

(Quote) From: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/24/technology/24 online.html?_r=1&oref=slogin A lot of people thought Apple got lucky with the iPod,” Mr. Kahney wrote. “It was a one-hit wonder, a fluke not likely to be repeated.” But the iPhone is already thought of as an “industry-changing smash hit,” and Apple TV, which at first drew shrugs, now may even eclipse the iPhone, according to the predictions of some (though by no means many) people (ipodnn.com). (/Quote) One way to sell products is to get journalists to write extremely good things about it. Not one review I've seen says AppleTV is a must have product.

"When quicktime's engineering staff breaks 5,000 then we can talk about throwing a few bills their way." I find it interesting that you're only willing to pay for someone's work if they have a certain staffing level that you consider acceptable. That's really, really odd. Besides--going on hiring binges and putting way more people on your staff than you need is the MICROSOFT way, not the Apple way.

"I find it interesting that you're only willing to pay for someone's work if they have a certain staffing level that you consider acceptable." Nope, that's not what I said. What I said was 'then we can talk' 5k employees devoted to the task still does not a quality product make. And only a quality product deserves the merit of payment. And while Quicktime maybe a nice piece of software, in the end, it is just an encoder/decoder with a plastic front end. I don't personally like 'the Apple way', The Apple way is charging you 150US for a 55US hardware option because the prior number is 'nicer' on paper. The Apple way is saing you can have it in white or black, but since we give you the option of a Spanish keyboard and either a 60,80,120,250GB harddisk, we are offering 100 computer options. The Apple way is that of assumed ignorance on the part of the user. Basic psych will tell you people traditionally like to be treated smarter than they are, rather than the converse. But through the Apple way, marketing has approved being 'dumb' as the 'in thing to be'. Why learn how to do something when we can mask all that away and just give you one white-plastic button? Through the Apple way, we learn that for girls it's cute to be dumb, and for guys, being dumb means being calm and in control (mac v. pc ads). I'd like to reiterate that I have respect for Apple's engineer's, they do a good job with what they have. But 'Apple' the corporate entity... well I'll just leave it as, I think of them in the same light they think of their customers.

there was a good video on Soapbox that i saw recently. someone took one of the Apple commercials (i think it was one of the UK ones) and pointed out who would be hired in the corporate world. i don't have to tell you that it was the "PC Guy". that says numbers about Apple's corporate penetration, anyway. i wish i remembered the link. XP

"And while Quicktime maybe a nice piece of software, in the end, it is just an encoder/decoder with a plastic front end." That speaks volumes about your ignorance of what QuickTime really is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/

For whatever it's worth, the Apple way works very well. Consider this: Zune and AppleTV are both version 1 products. Both have a lot of promise but don't deliver much. Both have UIs that have earned praise... Ultimately, when you look at the reviews, AppleTV has received mostly positive reviews whereas Zune was trashed by most reviewers. Apple really doesn't need to spend on advertisements. There are many people who are willing to do it for the company for free.

"And while Quicktime maybe a nice piece of software, in the end, it is just an encoder/decoder with a plastic front end." actually the same can be said about Windows Media Player, in all honesty. both players basically do the same thing, albeit in their respective formats (except that Windows Media Player doesn't require a separate app to sync to devices - except for Zune, of course). both will transcode or re-encode media to a supported format for a device, but in different ways - Quicktime Player requires user intervention, whereas Windows Media Player polls the device for supported formats through Sync options. the "technologies" of either format, however, are usually supported further through additional applications. both Quicktime and Windows Media technologies support media content creation/editing apps and each have a professional-level codec app. Windows Media Encoder is the professional-grade encoder, whereas Quicktime relies on 3rd-party support, such as Sorenson's compression products. both technologies are supported in "the industry", where Quicktime relies on its support of MPEG-4/H.264 technologies, and Windows Media Video 10 is Microsoft's VC-1 implementation, both of which are supported next-gen DVD video standards. XP

@Waethorn: "i'll wait for Codename: Zephyr thank you very much! " Looks like you won't have to wait for too long. It'll apparently have IPTV capability too.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/03/exclusive_microsoft_to_announce_the_xbox_360_elite.html Forgot to post the link.

wicked! thx sharky! Bell ExpressVu is apparently going to start offering IPTV as an initially alternate form of TV to their current satellite services. they're going to leverage their existing partnership with Microsoft to build on IPTV (hopefully that means they'll support the XBOX 360 Elite's IPTV!!). eventually they want to pull the plug on satellite services because it's currently costing them too much to have the bird in the sky, and has to be partially subsidized by their other services. when IPTV becomes a reality, we'll be looking at [at least] 25Mbps fiber optic connections directly into consumers' homes, shared with internet access. AWESOME! one thing to note about the XBOX 360 Elite: "The Xbox 360 Elite will apparently not come with a built-in HD-DVD drive, which will remain an option for playing high-definition movie disks." i see this as being a good thing. Microsoft wasn't one to "pick sides", but they chose HD-DVD because it was a more economical option for consumers, and likely because they have a greater partnership with Toshiba than with Sony. overall, it was a business choice more than anything else. many of those at Microsoft don't see either as being a viable option for the future. with IPTV just within reach, i think ultra-broadband TV service is more realistic option and has always been Bill Gates' own vision of the future of TV. obviously those that use iTunes to download movies and TV shows can already appreciate this. opinions? XP

Waethorn re Quicktime vs Windows Media Player You don't know what you're talking about and all the spin and knee-jerk Apple bashing in the world won't hide or change the fact. As succinct as possible... QT has been more of an "authoring" environment (video/audio track access/adjustment/minor editing, use of sprites, animation, encoding, etc) than simply a play back app, which more adequately and accurately describes various versions of Windows Media Player. re Vista security being supposedly so great vs others... Vista... security through obscurity. I mean, isn't that the reason almost always given for OS X's lack of attacks and virus/malware/hacker problems? Guess it goes both ways.... or at least it should. (Plus the fact the study is from MS makes it suspect. I'm sure if Apple released a similar study "proving" OS X was the best all the MS fanboys would accept and believe every word unchallenged... yeah right.) ...

"QT has been more of an "authoring" environment" let's not beat around the bush here. i mentioned that QUICKTIME is the name of the underlying technologies behind QUICKTIME PLAYER, much like WINDOWS MEDIA is the underlying technologies behind WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER. as to your mentioning of "video/audio track access/adjustment/minor editing, use of sprites, animation, encoding, etc", all of those are also supported by Windows Media technologies. i thought i made that clear when i mentioned this statement: "the "technologies" of either format, however, are usually supported further through additional applications. both Quicktime and Windows Media technologies support media content creation/editing apps and each have a professional-level codec app." sorry if you didn't get that. that's your problem though. how is that "Apple bashing" in any way? losta - care to comment? "Vista... security through obscurity. I mean, isn't that the reason almost always given for OS X's lack of attacks and virus/malware/hacker problems?" not exactly. the point is that there have been many known holes in OSX (albeit not many exploited), and yet there are very few in Vista - fewer than in the same release timeframe of any previously released OS. i'd rather have a truly secure OS that people try to attack and can't penetrate, than one where people aren't currently exploiting but with a huge back-door left open. ....it's the vectors, man. the VECTORS! XP

@MacCanuck "(Plus the fact the study is from MS makes it suspect. I'm sure if Apple released a similar study "proving" OS X was the best all the MS fanboys would accept and believe every word unchallenged... yeah right.)" If it was Microsoft who calculated the figures I'd agree with that sentence. However, it was Symantec's statistics.

The comparison of vulnerabilities is old and tired and as bad as any poll for any subject due to complete and utter subjectivities on the matter. Any Windows, OS X, or UNIX/LINUX user knows the difference. As for Apple TV..... It works fine but is a waste of $300 when you consider anyone can do what it does with cheaper or already owned hardware. With a little diligence and a few cables, one can already accomplish what Apple TV does simply using an iPod. Waethorn, Vista is a security accident waiting to happen just like the other and previous Windows systems that have already happened. One day you'll figure this out.... it's in the AD man...the AD....

there was a good video on Soapbox that i saw recently. someone took one of the Apple commercials (i think it was one of the UK ones) and pointed out who would be hired in the corporate world. i don't have to tell you that it was the "PC Guy". that says numbers about Apple's corporate penetration, anyway. Apple will no more pentrate the corporate world then a Corvette would on a cheap parking lot.... i see this as being a good thing. Microsoft wasn't one to "pick sides", but they chose HD-DVD because it was a more economical option for consumers, and likely because they have a greater partnership with Toshiba than with Sony. overall, it was a business choice more than anything else. many of those at Microsoft don't see either as being a viable option for the future. with IPTV just within reach, i think ultra-broadband TV service is more realistic option and has always been Bill Gates' own vision of the future of TV. obviously those that use iTunes to download movies and TV shows can already appreciate this. Yes, this is a good thing...

sorry, but that's just completely wrong. Yahoo Gadgets are based off Konfabulator, which is what OSX Widgets are copied from. Konfabulator has been around long before OSX too. Yep...absolutely correct on all assessments but Yahoo has a problem right now and at the social level it is a big one. That is the inter polarity with Windows Live Messenger and not because the two work together, but because Yahoo plugins such as the 360 interactions site and radio broadcasts from within Yahoo Messenger requires Internet Explorer. That is a colossal mistake on Yahoo's part. In fact, the way Microsoft is going, Yahoo would do well to distance themselves.....

"Vista is a security accident waiting to happen" obviously from reading the articles, Linux, specifically (albeit not limited to) Ubuntu, is already a trainwreck. XP

to reiterate, because of the comment: http://www.windowsitpro.com/articles/articleid/95578/Microsoft_Announces_Record_Vista_Sales.html i guess that puts to rest your theory of "security through obscurity", eh MacCanuck? XP

"how is that "Apple bashing" in any way? "losta - care to comment?" Well, since you asked--let's take a look at your "Apple Bashing" comments in this thread alone, "Waethorn". I'm beginning to think you have a serious problem. You're acting like a childish little schoolyard bully, and I think it's time for you to grow up. These are computing platforms, not religions, and your worship at the altar of Microsoft is getting annoying--particularly when you have to Apple-bash at nearly every opportunity. But that's just a suggestion. Either way, you're getting kind of out of hand, IMHO: ----- "too bad Apple doesn't carry any videos to buy in that format yet. who the heck cares about movie trailers in 1080i too? they're actually in 1080p, but who wants to watch them scaled down to interlaced 1080i format when there's also 720p trailers available?!" "AppleTV: .... just another waste of money from Apple. Fisher Price might as well have invented a Media Center Extender and sold it to Apple....then again, maybe they did! ;)" "and why is it so common for Apple users to dispute the facts when they are also present on Secunia's website?" "it only supports Quicktime, and likely only Quicktime's implementation of MPEG-4 (that's speculating, but i would bet money it's accurate)." Note: It wasn't accurate. ".....as much of a money trap as, well....OSX" "this is yet another expected disappointment by Apple." "Apple is still lax in security. overall, it hasn't made Apple improve itself one bit, which is kind of sad for Apple users." "i'm sure that the Mac community is twiddling their thumbs while their market share dwindles at less than 2.5%." "why not just use a Wii instead of that sad excuse for a computer - the Mac Mini. i bet it'd run circles around it." "what i find also equally laughable is that you have to pay to get full-screen playback." "much like Apple products, i won't touch Google with a 50-foot pole." ------- Seriously, "Waethorn". Get some help

"how is that "Apple bashing" in any way?" ....and where do i see any reference to what MacCanuck mistakenly mentioned as "Apple bashing"? nowhere! - that's where! good ol' losta. XP

Waethorn... Re Quicktime and "bashing" IMO, you tried to downplay the power and versatility of Quicktime. Windows Media has never had the "feature" set and strengths of QT, as a technology or just a player. Re Vista sales numbers and obscurity And that number supposedly includes coupons for upgrades distributed thru XP sales last year and probably all "forced installed" OEM shipments (sold or still sitting on shelves). http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070326/microsoft_vista_sales.html "Silver estimates PC makers sold between 12 million and 15 million PCs with Windows XP Home Edition over the holidays -- a significant chunk of the 20 million total, depending on how many included Vista coupons. While Microsoft wouldn't say how many Vista upgrades were ordered in that time frame, Dell Inc. spokesman Bob Kaufman said about two-thirds of its holiday PC shoppers registered for the upgrade. "That would say that those (Vista sales) numbers aren't all that great if that includes all that backlog," said Silver. Shipments of Vista to U.S. retailers in February lagged XP's first-month shipments by about 56 percent, according to the NPD Group, which tracks retail software sales. Microsoft declined to break out the number of Vista copies sold at retail, though it has said in the past that 80 percent of Windows revenue comes from sales to PC makers. The retail channel may not be the most important for Microsoft, but NPD analyst Chris Swenson said the decline is an indicator of consumer behavior overall. "That's kind of a big deal," Swenson said. "Our thesis was, every review of Vista talks about how strenuous the hardware requirements of Vista were. I think customers got the message." Not too difficult to sell when you own an illegally maintained monopoly and people feel they have little choice (or can afford to go) with alternatives. Snowball effect ---> lock in. Bottom line, even with MS's monopoly, Vista is still too "new" and obscure to be fully tested and "hacked".

"Windows Media has never had the "feature" set and strengths of QT, as a technology or just a player." that's absolutely wrong. both Quicktime and Windows Media players supported Intel Indeo codecs back when both were nowhere close to where they are now. Microsoft even had support for ISO MPEG-4 level 1 V1, 2, & 3 early on (not comparable to MPEG-4 Level 10/H.264 now). it has also had support of sprite and animation based codecs prior to that. Apple has all but ended major development of their own video codecs since Quicktime 2.0 was released - all of the other codecs were third party: Cinepak, Indeo, Sorenson, QDesign, MPEG 4 etc. Microsoft started Windows Media codecs long ago and has since become their most widely accepted format on the Windows platform. you should really bone up on your media technologies. "And that number supposedly includes coupons for upgrades distributed thru XP sales last year and probably all "forced installed" OEM shipments (sold or still sitting on shelves)." "Silver estimates PC makers sold between 12 million and 15 million PCs with Windows XP Home Edition over the holidays -- a significant chunk of the 20 million total, depending on how many included Vista coupons." that's wrong too. the figure includes actual online orders through the Windows Vista Express Upgrade website, which means REAL ORDERS, not just coupon inclusion with XP. "Our thesis was, every review of Vista talks about how strenuous the hardware requirements of Vista were." again, wrong! even with the minimum requirements of 800MHz and 512MB of RAM, it still performs better than XP on the same computer specs. someone running a system of that caliber NOW with current software, will likely not fare too well, but then that's also true of XP. who wants to use a current video editing program on XP, Mac, or whatever, with only 512MB of RAM? who want's to try playing a new game on that? it ain't gonna happen, but i'd like to see you try! XP