Reader Comments

"And here's a reality check: Apple sold 39.1 million iPods in the previous year alone. My prediction is that Microsoft will never, ever sell a fraction of that many Zunes." I just checked the electronic Bestsellers list at Amazon.com. Zune is at #15 on the list. Not bad, huh? Oh, by the way, the 30 GB iPod is at #1 on the list. There are also iPod models at positions #3, #4, #7, #8, and #12 on the list. My prediction is that the Zune will gradually fade away and disappear from this ranking list. Let's watch what happens in the months ahead!

Why is MS dogging on Linux all of a sudden? I agree with Red Hat's lawyer: Give us a list of these infringements. I'm not that big of a Linux fan (in the desktop sense, I do love it as a server), but come on! This is absolutly silly.

About Zune/Vista compatibility: I've seen the press reports about this issue and they make a very good point: Why should users have to be bothered with a patch to make the Zune software work on Vista? MS knew Vista was coming out, why didn't they make Zune compatible with it right off the bat? What was the reason? I think that's a pretty fair question.

It should be mentioned, since both Sony and Microsoft are operating in the red on their consoles, that Nintendo will again be the only company of the three actually generating a profit on its machine. Nintendo expects to sell 4 million Wiis by the end of the year alone. That's just under how many 360s Microsoft has sold in the last 12 months. In Japan, friggin' DS games are outselling the PS3. If Nintendo takes over Japan, they'll get most of the developers since the XBox 360 has virtually no presence there, and there are rumors of many developer shops switching PS3 projects to the Wii. I have a strong feeling the Wii will be the smash-hit of this holiday season.

Microsoft is dogging Linux right now because they realize that people like myself can run all the features of Windows Vista (including aero, 3d, and so on) on machines with less ram and speed. My laptop with 512RAM and on a Celeron Chip is complteley outperforming my Media Center with 2 gigs of RAM. Microsoft is scared. Perhaps this is why some people are getting out or at least getting away from the everyday operations....Allchin, Gates, perhaps they are starting to realize that their investments were spread too thin when they should have stayed on Vista other than getting into Zune and so forth. Who knows....but I know that they know that Linux can run circles around any Apple or Microsoft software based PC. Like I said.....Microsoft is quite worried.....especially when a person can downlaod a better operating system in 10 minutes, burn the image to CD, and be up and running within and hour. That's Linux and that is the way it should be.....

@Free Vista for Beta Testers: So Microsoft is giving them a free copy of a $329 OS that: - still contains bugs - requires costly hardware upgrades in order to use all the features of the OS - will likely have its own MS Blaster saga come this summer. That's cool. Here's hoping MS gives them a free year of OneCare while they're at it. @Vista/Office2007 on MSDN: Just in time. The cracked versions of those two are already out, using widgets from the betas. I can see the Windows Vista Ultimate Pirate Edition wallpaper being made right now. @PS3: I think all the hoopla over 720p, 1080i, 1080p is just hoopla. The majority of consoles are played on standard "cable ready" television sets that MIGHT have RCA jacks on it. Then again, households with $600 to blow on a PS3 or a Xbox360+Subscription may very well have a better TV in-house, but I'd imagine a small portion of console gamers actually have the 1080i/p monitor for gaming at home. @Ballmer/Linux: Unless they point out the infringing parts, I call BS. @Zune&Vista We all know Vista won't be in consumer hands until January and that a patch will be out by then. But what about MSDN people who are downloading Vista right now? Surely they are of the demographic that might be picking up a Zune (if not already). These folks would then naturally wan to run it on their freshly downloaded copy of Vista. But they can't. THAT'S why this is news, Paul. @Microsoft Marketing I'm still waiting for Microsoft's own silhouette campaign. I mean they already stole the decal-in-box idea. They stole "Designed by Apple in California" with "Hello from Seattle." The silhouette campaign is the natural next thing to copy.

For the last time: Apple did not invent the sticker in the box idea. I'll say it again: Apple did NOT invent the sticker in the box idea.

One for the young Republicans here: 1. Open up Notepad on your XP machine. 2. Type in "bush hid the facts" without the quotes or punctuation. 3. Save the file with a name of your choosing and close Notepad. 4. Now open up the saved file in Notepad. 5. Check it out!

"The problem is, cool ads are almost never really cool, and the products they're selling are likewise almost always uncool." Funny, but the antics of John Hodgman of a short-lived Daily Show fame (or infamy, depending on who you ask), and Justin Long of B-rated teen comedies (is there any other kind?) on the Mac ads are really lame and annoying, and are ultimately just a turn-off. Apple's marketing is childish at best. They can't stand on their own 2 feet and say what is great about their systems without being insulting to the competition. Often criticisms are just a desperate move. Political marketing is the same way. And of course, then there's the expense of the commercials, the fact that there's no actual product or screen shots except the Apple logo at the end, and the fact that they use sub-recognizable B-rated celebrities where they could've got virtual nobodies is completely mind-boggling. The time and money wasted on such frivolous acts could have been better spent on their actual product development. Preseton: Nintendo targets their system to the younger crowd. They also have stricter policies for game devs for violence and such. I doubt that they will dent the PS3 in Japan very much, since it targets the late-teens and on. Of course, the exclusive games for each console are targetted for their home market too. Nintendo and Sony are raking in Japanese developers that make games in the typical Japanese Anime and Manga styles respectively. Compare Nintendo's game series like Mario, and Zelda (simplistic cartoony Anime-style) vs. Sony with series like Final Fantasy which is the more complex Manga-style with longer, more deleveloped storylines and you can see that the two markets are different. Microsoft, being based in the western World, gets more of it's exclusive titles targetting the older crowd, like Sony, but features action games WITHOUT Sony's often convoluted game plots and even more often bad Japanese translations.

Nice article. Coincidentally, I live in good ol' Albuquerque. I've meaning meaning to check out that exhibit as well. Thanks for the reminder, Paul.

@Vandil "So Microsoft is giving them a free copy of a $329 OS that: - still contains bugs - requires costly hardware upgrades in order to use all the features of the OS - will likely have its own MS Blaster saga come this summer." Why are we so defensive? "We all know Vista won't be in consumer hands until January and that a patch will be out by then. But what about MSDN people who are downloading Vista right now? Surely they are of the demographic that might be picking up a Zune (if not already). These folks would then naturally wan to run it on their freshly downloaded copy of Vista. But they can't. THAT'S why this is news, Paul." MSDN subscribers make up less than .00001% of the Windows users, most likely because a subscription cost a least $2K annually. That's why it is NOT NEWS. The majority of subscribers are also companies which could care less about compatability with Zune. If they don't have a fix when Vista is made available to consumers, that would definately be news (and stupid).

@anonymous Microsoft makes the Zune, the Zune Software, and the Vista OS. It's the same set up that Apple has with iPod and iTunes. The Zune should have had Vista support before it even hit store shelves. Or, at the VERY LEAST, MS should have had an updated Zune Software download on launch day with Vista compatibility. Considering that new model iPods worked on Leopard beta builds the same day the new iPods were available speaks volumes for Apple's willingness to make their first-party products work with their OSes, even the Leopard Beta. And Leopard isn't due out until this Spring or Summer!

"One for the young Republicans here: 1. Open up Notepad on your XP machine. 2. Type in "bush hid the facts" without the quotes or punctuation. 3. Save the file with a name of your choosing and close Notepad. 4. Now open up the saved file in Notepad. 5. Check it out!" It also works with "What are you doing". and "Osamabin laden leading all terrorist" Its because when Notepad reads the file, it calls the Win32 API IsTextUnicode() passing the flag IS_TEXT_UNICODE_STATISTICS. This will try to determine if the text contains unicode characters. The algorithm is more accurate with more data so the results are not 100% accurate. It thinks that the text is unicode instead of ascii and hence 1 byte characters are conveted to 2 byte unicode characters. http://dhilung.blogspot.com/2006/08/technotepad-facts-behind-bush-hid.html

"I just checked the electronic Bestsellers list at Amazon.com. Zune is at #15 on the list. Not bad, huh? Oh, by the way, the 30 GB iPod is at #1 on the list. There are also iPod models at positions #3, #4, #7, #8, and #12 on the list. My prediction is that the Zune will gradually fade away and disappear from this ranking list. Let's watch what happens in the months ahead!" Considering how subdued their launch was, I think the Zune is doing okay. By the way, no one (not one person) here said the Zune would topple the iPod. It's pretty obvious that iPod models are on top. "Apple's marketing is childish at best. They can't stand on their own 2 feet and say what is great about their systems without being insulting to the competition. Often criticisms are just a desperate move. Political marketing is the same way. And of course, then there's the expense of the commercials, the fact that there's no actual product or screen shots except the Apple logo at the end, and the fact that they use sub-recognizable B-rated celebrities where they could've got virtual nobodies is completely mind-boggling. The time and money wasted on such frivolous acts could have been better spent on their actual product development." :-)

@vandil "The Zune should have had Vista support before it even hit store shelves. Or, at the VERY LEAST, MS should have had an updated Zune Software download on launch day with Vista compatibility." Seriously, who is this going to effect?

@anonymous Glad to see you're not denying that MS should have Zune support out of the box. "Seriously, who is this going to effect?" Exactly. Microsoft doesn't care about a segment of users unless it affects significant amount of their marketshare or finances. When iPods are released, Apple makes damn sure they work on their OSes, and even Microsoft's. Hell, iPod+iTunes works on Vista RIGHT NOW, something Zune+ZuneSoftware do not. So let's see. The #1 portable digital music/movie/photo player (iPod) along with the #1 digital music/movie store (iTunes/iTunes Store) work RIGHT NOW on Vista. And for the small number of tech enthusiasts evaluating the final version of Vista, likely those who were into the beta and ironically being given free copies of Vista, can't use their new Zune on their Vista machines until late January. Perhaps they should borrow an iPod for the 2-month's wait.

"They can't stand on their own 2 feet and say what is great about their systems without being insulting to the competition. Often criticisms are just a desperate move" YA! Apple is really behind the times. They charge $70US for a wireless 4 button mouse when Microsoft charges under $35 for the same thing. Why on earth did it takes so long to make a mouse with a right-click button in the first place so it could support context-sensitive menu's on that right-click. Macs are supposed to be safer to use online, so I figure if you're surfing for p0rn, cuz there's no other reason to own a Mac, you could use that right-click and save those pics without using the keyboard key to simulate a Windows right-click. That way you'd only have to use one hand and could ... uh ... have that other hand free for .. um....

"(By comparison, Microsoft currently loses about $75 per Xbox 360 console sold and the company expects to begin making money on the consoles, for the first time, as soon as next year.)" Paul, check the Isupply site again, you misread it. Microsoft turns a profit of 75USD. I refer you to the GIF that you undoubtedly referenced, http://www.isuppli.com/images/news/111606-2.gif People like this are referencing you now, "It should be mentioned, since both Sony and Microsoft are operating in the red on their consoles," incorrectly. --- "households with $600 to blow on a PS3 or a Xbox360+Subscription may very well have a better TV in-house, but I'd imagine a small portion of console gamers actually have the 1080i/p monitor for gaming at home." If you hook up a PS3 to a SDTV (through coaxial nonetheless) then you are... nevermind, I won't tell you what you are. You just contact me for the shipping information, and I'll give the PS3 an appropriate home.

Oh.. and if you have an HDTV that only displays 1080i, the PS3 will *downscale* any 720p game to 480. The 360 will *upscale*. In other words, if your HDTV cannot support 720p, you will not be getting an HD signal at all with 720p games. The question to ask is: How else can Sony screw up?

"The Zune should have had Vista support before it even hit store shelves." What shelf has Vista hit? Vista RTM shouldn't have a paramount objective of supporting media players. That's what retail is for. Anyway, I'm assuming your ambiguity-laden sentence meant that Zune should have been crafted to work with Vista before the Zune's release. Since you arn't going to own either the OS or the Zune, why do you care? MS is going to iron all this out before the public sees Vista, so the only people who should care about this are MSDN subscription holders who have a hardcore urge to use the Zune with their Vista image. And if this isn't a Microsoft Witch-hunt (iHunt if you will) then why arn't any of you who are claiming that this Zune incompatibility thing is the end of the world, complaining about the 100% lack of DX10 drivers for Vista? I can guarantee it is a much larger issue right now that Vista can't even run native on any video processing hardware in the world. But no, none of you who actually squeal on these threads actually look at important flaws until some mainstream hack throws them in your face. You've got your "i hatzorz me some M$ xcorex"-visors on and deadlocked in on this Zune thing. Only thing worse than an elitist is an ignorant elitist.

@will84 "What shelf has Vista hit? ..., I'm assuming your ambiguity-laden sentence meant that Zune should have been crafted to work with Vista before the Zune's release." That's what my sentence states. L2Read. "Only thing worse than an elitist is an ignorant elitist." "If you hook up a PS3 to a SDTV (through coaxial nonetheless) then you are... nevermind, I won't tell you what you are. You just contact me for the shipping information, and I'll give the PS3 an appropriate home." Well said, elitist.

"Apple's marketing is childish at best. They can't stand on their own 2 feet and say what is great about their systems without being insulting to the competition. Often criticisms are just a desperate move. Political marketing is the same way. And of course, then there's the expense of the commercials, the fact that there's no actual product or screen shots except the Apple logo at the end, and the fact that they use sub-recognizable B-rated celebrities where they could've got virtual nobodies is completely mind-boggling. The time and money wasted on such frivolous acts could have been better spent on their actual product development." Really Waethorn? Can't stand on their own two feet without insulting the competition, eh? The time wasted on such frivolous acts could have been better spent, eh? Tell me, don't you have a store with some zunes to stock? Or is it not a frivolous waste of time for you to get on here and take shots at Apple? I mean, you are definitely not a celebrity... so you meet that requirement I suppose. Anyway, you know what they say about glass houses. And you're absolutely right. Microsoft's ads showing various mixes of asians, blacks, and whites smiling, holding products, and laughing are much better. What was that tagline, again? Start something? Oh how very clever. Welcome to the social? Wow, that's not awkward at all. Someone get that marketing department a raise!

Oooh I hit a nerve. So I guess it's not a frivolous waste of time for you either, considering what site you're on. Show me one public ad where Microsoft puts down the competition. Yeah, I thought so. And you know what they say about aqua - it evaporates. "Microsoft's ads showing various mixes of asians, blacks, and whites smiling, holding products" Feeling genocidal? So ethnic diversity is not your thing either, just like how you've said before that Windows users should all die off? I applaud Microsoft for showing a bit of ethnic diversity in their ads. It shows how Apple couldn't get two whiter guys for their marketing. Did you completely fail high-school English? The word "social" is used in the noun form in their marketing, as in "an informal gathering or event". It's even capitalized for idiots to emphasize the fact that it's a noun. "Start something."? Ya that's a really a whole lot worse than the grammatically incorrect "Think different".

iPeople are funny. They still refuse to say one single positive thing about MS. With them, its an all or nothing situation. Since the RTM of Vista and the zune release, even the usually intelligent bdkjones, lotsamystuff, and others(including the 2nd iteration of vandil) have turned into raving lunatics. You are all running scared, concerned that MS will win either with better products or more money, otherwise you wouldn't care about either product; you'd just go on living your ilifes, buying your ikids thier ipods and waiting for the itv to come out next year with absolutely none of the features that make the MC/360 combo the better choice. Please, go back to the intelligent people that you used to be. I'm sure that there are other fanatics such as them, but I cannot think of too many...other than the far left libs and far right conservatives. But, the midterms are over so we get a few months reprive before the 2008 circus begins. I have an iMac...and I like it, its a good PC...but I don't like the elitist attitude of the iPeople...that is why my next PC will be home built and run Vista and the iMac will probably be relinquished to the basement or out the door. Keep up the good work, iPeople...Mr. Jobs would be proud of you for fighting the good fight him. --tayme

Waethorn: I peg your age around about 17. This is the upteenth time you've accused me of saying "all windows users should die off." *sigh* I suppose you don't actually read my responses, but I'm sure other people here can recall all the times I've said that Windows and the Mac should coexist. You're completely right. My dislike for the racially balanced, generic, uninspiring, boring ads that Microsoft puts out makes me genocidal. Look out Slobodan Milosevic, here I come! Regarding the word "social:" When's the last time some teenager came up to you and said, "Hey man, we're havin' a social over at Paul's house tonight. Free keg. You wanna come?" Yes, Waethorn, all the cool kids are at the socials tonight! Microsoft sure is in on that groovy language the kids are using these days! ....Come on, please. The only time that word gets used is when it refers to a sorority mixer. Or in the phrase: "socially inept" which seems to fit the zune quite well. As for "Think Different" vs. "Start Something" One of these campaigns won tons of ad industry awards and was recognized as one of the best campaigns ever done. One was not. But it's ok Waethorn. I don't actually expect you to admit that just maybe Apple has a good marketing department. I don't expect you to criticize the zune as a waste of money and focus. I don't expect you to actually admit that Apple is a legitimate challenger to Microsoft. There are much smarter people than you who realize these things. They live in both Cupertino and Redmond. And you manage some store in Canada... if that's not a ruse designed to make you look older. You're just like a hardline Islamic cleric - just with regards to Microsoft. And watch out man, I'm genocidal.

The Zune commercials really make me want to host one of those demographically-perfect racially-balanced parties where everyone listens to their own individual music instead of actually acting, well, "social". "I don't like the elitist attitude of the iPeople...that is why my next PC will be home built and run Vista and the iMac will probably be relinquished to the basement or out the door." Well that's just ridiculous. I don't like Microsoft's monopolistic business practices, or the attitude of MonkeyBoy Ballmer, but that doesn't keep me from using Microsoft Word. Get over yourself. It's a computer, not a religion. Sheesh.

Tayme: Oh come now, I've said many nice things about Microsoft. Everything from how IE7's tab-preview window is a good idea to how Office (with the exception of PowerPoint) is best in class. You can hardly call me an Apple shrill for saying that the Zune is a waste of time. EVERYONE is saying that. It's not like the Zune is actually a good product and only the Apple fans are calling it crap. Secondly, Vista does not frighten me. OS X is not the reason people are switching to Macs. iLife and the cool stuff they can do with a Mac right in the Apple store are the reasons people are switching to Macs. I mean, you install Vista and it's new for a few days... but after that, it's pretty much just a tool. Just like OS X is a tool. Until Vista comes with something to rival iLife, I won't be shaking in my boots, thank you. And finally, no matter how good Vista is, you still have to run it on ugly PC hardware. And, as portables become more and more popular, I think the flimsy plastic jobs from Dell (I've owned one, I can talk about them) are looking more and more pathetic compared to the slick design of Apple notebooks. Of course, people can buy Vista AND a Mac. I'm cool with that. Just more money fed into Apple's R&D department. And, on that note, I wish Microsoft would just drop crap like the Zune and invest that money into stuff like speech recognition that actually works and cutting-edge stuff like quantum computers which, conceivably, could make current machines look like bean counters. Microsoft and its employees have so much potential... and it's being squandered on junk like the Zune. Besides, haven't you guys been telling me for months that the iPod is doomed because music is moving to mobile phones? Why, then, is the Zune not likewise doomed? Why do you guys support Microsoft entering a supposedly dying market?

Tayme, Weathorn and whoever else groups all Mac users into one category: Not all "iPeople" despise MS. I enjoy their products because they help the business I work at complete the tasks we need in an efficient, cost-effective matter. I do enjoy OS X for home, but I guess I must be one of the rare Mac users who has unplugged himself from The Matrix and is willing to admit other than media/animation/CAD, OS X doesn't belong near enterprise/business sectors. Vista is a great OS and the development tools are phenomenal. Will it be a slow start? Of course, it's a drastic change for Windows, but give it time. BDK, if you think all the MS employees have a hand in every product they turn out, you're sadly mistaken. The zune was a product of the XBOX division, an area that has nothing to do with the Windows division. Let's no forget that Apple made the mistake of being Mac only when the iPod launched, you really can't get on Microsofts case for not supporting a product that isn't even available for the general public yet for consumption. If you think business users will want this support, you're sadly mistaken. Most places will not want their employees wasting their time uploading their music. Then again, they're so busy playing "The Sims" that they won't have time to sync their zune's /sarcasm

"This is the upteenth time you've accused me of saying "all windows users should die off." *sigh* I suppose you don't actually read my responses" So now you dispute it??! That's the funniest thing I've read on here now. Glass house, indeed! So you dispute the fact that you posted these comments? "the sooner the generation of people who were raised on Windows die off, the better" Those are your words. Or are you claiming that some Windows virus took ahold of your computer and typed it for you??! Oh, right! You're a Mac-user. So you wouldn't be using the internet on a Windows machine, if you "know" what's good for you right? "I wish Microsoft would...invest that money into stuff like...quantum computers" Since when did Microsoft build computers? I didn't know they did that! Why should I buy a system from a 3rd-party when the company that makes my O/S is also making computers??! (sic!) "no matter how good Vista is, you still have to run it on ugly PC hardware" You call Ferrari notebooks, and Alienware desktops ugly? Why even Antec's New Solution series cases are sleek in black and silver and cost less than most of their PSU's do separately, yet offer the same quality with the included PSU's. That's ugly? And you think that desktop-style silver aluminum or piano black Media Center PC's are ugly even though they're designed to look like and match your pre-existing home theater equipment and are even designed to the same width to fit your home theater cabinet? Does the iTV? Certainly NOT! Well, sure if you like the iMac all-in-one LCD/computer/toaster with no upgradeability, then that's just fine. I think the white cheap plastic look makes it look like a toy rather than a computer. Honestly, they look like the same material that glossy dentures are made of. iMac's should be written up on the Toms Hardware articles called "Who Designed This Crap?".

Here we go with the boring and old news Apple/Microsoft which is better thing. What puzzles me is that there are systems available that will outperform both of these dinosaurs without all the hassle. Takes about an hour for download and installation and then maybe another hour of tweaking if one is the type of person that wants things in a particular setup. For me, I downloaded an ISO, burned it to CD, Installed the system, and setup 3D and translucency in a matter of about 45 minutes. All on a little laptop running a Celeron processor with 512 RAM. There is more, but I'll stop since I am sure that all the APPLE/MICROSOFT debators are just as bored with my schtick as I am theirs. But back to Zune.....consider that Universal Music just sued MySpace................gee, wonder who is lurking in the background.....

Reflections "they help the business I work at complete the tasks we need in an efficient, cost-effective matter." That has been my point all along. You are obviously not telling me anything that I haven't already said. OS X is NOT AN ENTERPRISE OS. For the basic home user and for the artsy types, yes...it fits nicely. Linux, on the other hand, is a good server solution in the enterprise...but not on the desktop. Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, others are great UNIX based server solutions. Windows covers the desktop and small-midrange server markets, and does so well. --tayme

hmmmm, not sure why one would note that Linux is not a good desktop solution....maybe hands on would be prudent before this kind of judgment. I have a Media Center XP machine with 2 gigs of RAM that handles TV, Video, and Audio fairly well but all of this (aside from TV) is handled more efficiently on my measly little Laptop running Linux.....with 512RAM....and a measly Celeron Processor.....oh well, maybe I just got lucky.... by the way.....I did partition the media center for Linux to run along with XP and can watch TV with no glitches as well.....either with XP or with Linux running......the best of both worlds I guess.......

"OS X is NOT AN ENTERPRISE OS. For the basic home user and for the artsy types, yes...it fits nicely." One can actually argue that Windows fits nicely for a basic home user too. iPeople love to bring up iLife. I've used the suite a few times and it's truly amazing but I'm already bored of it. For people like me, the presence of iLife makes no difference. I've probably used Photo Story 3 and Movie Maker once or twice, that's all. Windows is more than adequate for me at home. I don't love Windows XP, but I don't really have any problems with it. And although I'm more into programming than hardware, I'm not exactly the average dumb Windows user (that bdk claims most are).

Here is an example of why Linux is not good on the desktop. The basic user does not and probably cannot go through something like this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/23445 I have and do run suse and redhat on my "Made for Windows" PCs, and am still trying to get Ubuntu to run on my iMac...and I am not the average dumb user, either. --tayme

Tayme, I know many Windows users have said that, I'm just stating that most Windows users think that Mac users will never on their death bed admit that which I think is false. I really wish a majority of the "iPeople" would accept that for most users Windows XP is more than enough and they could careless about the iLife suite. I don't even use it, I chose OS X just because it's what I prefer and that's what it all boils down to. People prefer to use what they use and nobody should be able to tell them otherwise. There are things OS X does great that Windows doesn't and there are things Windows does great that OS X doesn't. I wish this "debate" would end but it won't.

I think Mac and Linux users need to get over the idea that because they use either, this makes them smarter or something. Clearly this is ill egoism and while I remain a Linux user, I also understand that XP and even earlier systems work fine depending on the particular user. I have an eMac here that took Ubuntu just fine so I am not sure what the iMac bug is all about but my guess is that they will fix it. Finally, I do not see any user of any system as a dumb computer user. Where all system types are involved...Linux, Windows, Apple,.....all three would do well to listen more carefully to their user base. Good luck to those trying to work with Linux on the iMac. I do not have one and would be interested in seeing how that goes over time.

shark, reflections, treeorc: When we talk about the average windows user on this forum, we certainly are not talking about ourselves. I think it's hard to argue that the majority of windows users are sophisticated computer users. The truth is that the majority of Windows users are, really, complete technological idiots. And that's not a reflection on Windows or Microsoft in any way. If OS X were the dominant OS, the majority of users would still be technological idiots. That's just a fact of life given that computers have only been available to the masses for around 18-20 years. As kids born in the early 90's grow up, I think we'll start to see the majority of people be at least somewhat tech savvy. And by that, I mean they won't fall for the pop-ups that say: "Your computer is infected! Click here to fix it!" Honestly... that virus writers ever got that scam to work on people says a lot for how computer educated the masses are.

BDK, I wouldn't debate much at all of what you state here. Then again, we could call anyone that pays a dime for software, hardware etcetera an idiot if they use either Windows or OS X when you consider free alternatives. I guess it depends on how one defines lunacy. As for who uses this forum and what their level of expertise is, I could care less because the tendency toward egoistic and useless debates over which system is better is pointless. I personally know (at least I think I know) which systems are more secure and more reliable but to waste my breath spouting off about it is non productive. But the bottom line is that you have a good point and it is a point that should be considered when we think about the Internet. Us brilliant computer users certainly don't need a bunch of lunatics messing things up for everyone else.

To clarify, the word hardware should not have been included in my previous post. I am a firm believer in Open Source, but obviously the hardware comes at a price.

Oops, it looks like your guys' least favorite company is making headway in the corporate world again: http://www.ameinfo.com/102511.html

It's pretty tough to beat Apple's video solutions. Microsoft has been catching up and for my own personal use, there isn't anything video wise that I can't do using Linux. But the possibilities and editing platforms are seamless in Apple environments. Where Apple falls down and is highly over rated is audio.

"Oops, it looks like your guys' least favorite company is making headway in the corporate world again" That's extremely funny and yet not, at the same time. Our least favourite company dealing with America's least favourite news organization. I'm sure that political spin doctors will definitely put this in a new light when we see newspaper headlines saying "The Terror Channel chooses Apple computers". Obviously if you did your homework, you'd know that Microsoft doesn't deal with many Arab countries as they are (both of them) under scrutiny with the US government, so this kind of news isn't exactly new. treeorc: What do you mean by Microsoft playing catchup for video solutions to Apple? They don't make any kind of professional video editing suite as there are plenty of partners already doing that. As far as Final Cut Pro is concerned, the team that designed it is just the leftover team from the Mac version of Adobe Premiere, and Adobe Premiere Pro (available on PC only) is nearly identical, including the workspace design. Where Microsoft excels is it's codec support for high-quality video compression. Apple's support of H.264 is pretty poor and it's quality/bit is just sad. Even DivX's non-standard codec approach for HD video is superior to it. Sony's implementation of H.264/AVC is far superior, but VC-1 is a very good competitor to it, and according to some video compression technology specialists, is even superior. The nice thing is that Microsoft's WMA 10 Professional audio codecs work with several different bit rate modes such as 2 pass unconstrained VBR or peak VBR, whereas most AAC implementations only support a single pass, and don't often support quality-based VBR, which is often necessary for the archival quality, but where some downward quantization is required, because of size restrictions. WMV 9 Advanced Profile is Microsoft's implementation of VC-1 and they're working with the SMPTE group to have it ratified as the defacto standard.

Another good thing about the Windows Media format is that you can use VBR for both audio AND video in one stream, without losing sync. Most other codecs require that audio be CBR when video is VBR, which I really hate.

Don't miscontrue my comment. The US already has a "Terror Channel" It's called CNN. ...or else, Fox News.

Apples video platform is still a bit better then Windows in my opinion Waethorn. Microsoft's audio is simply superior to Apple by far in my opinion. However, I am currently working with on the fly audio recording and in many cases up to 9 tracks (with 4 stereo MIDI sequences alongside) at once with my present project. Both Apple and Microsoft falter here where Linux handles this load seamlessly. Previously, when I experimented with Pro Tools (on Apple) and Cubase (on Microsoft) the two were literally a dead heat although latency was handled better with Pro Tools. However, Cubase produced better sound. The bottom line is that I am not here to detail all the specs in order to be long winded and prove something to anybody. I simply state that through my experience Windows does not handle video quite as well as OS X. Maybe your experience is different and so be it. Now most of my work is centered around audio at this point and right now, Linux produces better sound quality than either Microsoft or Apple based platforms. It's just the way it is....at least here in this studio...Finally, I still have an XP system that I mix on with the latest Steinberg Cleanup and Wave Lab once in a while if I want a certain mix. My hope is that Windows Vista will improve on both the audio and video end so that I can put Steinberg Nuendo to better use. As it stands now and while Linux is producing some remarkable recordings here, there still aren't as many choices compared to running Windows software.

"My hope is that Windows Vista will improve on both the audio and video end so that I can put Steinberg Nuendo to better use." Windows Vista has a *completely* revised audio stack, capable of advanced audio effects. You can even have an array of microphones attached and Vista handles them all seemlessly. Don't get me going again about the multi-tasking aspect... Needless to say, audio output in Vista (esp. with WMP 11) will run seemlessly no matter what is happening in the background. You could be rendering video, running a virus scan, etc., and your audio output will remain smooth. Also, for those who d/led XP using MSDNAA, how soon did it come out after XP went to RTM? A couple weeks? A couple months?

Must be a miracle NateB2, because in my experience with RC2 the audio was about the same as XP...if this has improved that's great. As for multi-tasking, I've never had a problem there whether running Linux, OS X, or Windows.....Anyway, the proof always comes with tracking when recording, engineering, and producing audio. Right now, Linux performs best at this facility and Windows comes in handy now and then for some mixing and testing purposes. As for Vista, at $400 bucks I'll take my time and keep my eyes open as to how it progresses from launch day. Happy upcoming T-Day to all.....

What kind of problems are you having treeorc?? I've been using ASIO drivers since Creative brought out the Audigy versions (I know, I know, it's hardly a "pro" card, but that system is also my gaming machine). My latency was under 8ms on the Audigy, and now with an X-Fi it's 2ms. I often work with 32 tracks or more, some MIDI, some audio, but often my audio equates to at least 16 of those (each in stereo). MIDI doesn't take any CPU power whatsoever, unless of course, you're putting it out to a soft-synth, but that's not related to the actual MIDI message processing. Now often I'm recording in 24-bit 48KHz or higher, so I need some power, and running on less than 1GB is completely out of the question. Right now I'm up to 2GB. The added RAM in audio systems, as you probably already know, is used for prefetching audio off the hard drive. If I'm playing back and recording at the same time, I need to have a system that's not going to lose an audio capture because it's also reading part of one (or several) track(s) off another location on the hard drive. Personally, I prefer Cakewalk for it's industry-standard DX Plugin support (I can also use Sony Vegas, Sound Forge plugins in it). I've been using the original Cakewalk MIDI-only software since version 4 for Windows 3.1 and now I'm a Sonar user. For linear audio editing and mixdown, I actually like using Vegas even if it isn't really designed for it. Sonic Foundry (before the products were bought by Madison Media - a company owned by Sony) released Vegas 1.0 as two separate programs: Vegas Audio and Vegas Video - the latter only adding video support. Vegas 7 is really good for multitrack audio, and processing is at least as good as Sound Forge, and it also gives you 5.1 support (being it's a video program). I usually use it for when the MIDI portions are completely rendered as audio in Cakewalk, since it's drag-and-drop functionality is much better.

Awesome, sounds like you have things happening.....no problems here other than a few freeze ups and hitches when recording several tracks using Windows.....I'm running a MOTU card and an Audigy and each with a specific purpose though I am not running these side by side. The freezes have subsided considerably with my addition of memory....I am also running 2 gigs. Glad to see you system is handling things top notch. I use the Audigy for specific 5.1 rendering and mixing and usually with ACID Pro 6. The MOTU is what I have been using for on the fly multiple track recording. But it is an older card and I've just recently ordered the latest. I don't use the Mac anymore with Pro Tools. Don't need it. Linux and Windows are handling everything I need just fine. One thing that has truly improved Windows performance is the fact that I have disabled all networking/online services and several other un-needed services. The difference is quite noticeable.......especially since I have no reason to be online with that system.

I haven't used Acid Pro 6 yet, but I hear that many of the Sony programs (previously Sonic Foundry) have a similar look and feel, and there is a lot of overlap in functionality, so for now, I'll stick with using Vegas for mixdowns and straight audio editing. The only time I use loops are in Cakewalk, and mostly that comes from MIDI tracks, so when they're done, I record them down to full-length audio tracks for post-prod effects. You should honestly check out the Sound Blaster X-Fi's for multitrack audio though because performance is unbelievable with it, and are you using the ASIO drivers for your Audigy? I haven't tried very many MOTU hardware devices, but I remember that their old MIDI and audio tools were pretty poor several years back. For [semi]Pro-Audio gear, I've always liked the M-Audio equipment, though. I also like what Roland/Edirol offers in the way of combination MIDI/Audio modules. I wish Yamaha offered that kind of stuff, but has turned their back away from from a lot of their superior XG lineup of MIDI tone modules and synths in recent years. I still have a clunker of a Yamaha MU15XG that I use. I also play a Yamaha WX5, and not quite a year ago, I bought 2 CLASSIC Roland MT-32 modules on eBay on the cheap. I wish I could've gotten my hands on an MT-500 though (I think that's the model - it's the one with a Roland Sound Canvas GS synth combined with a REAL MT-32 LA synth, in one unit).