Print - Suddenly, Windows Vista No Longer in Free Fall

And just like that, Windows Vista rebounds. Years of delays, broken promises, and reduced expectations have dogged the Windows product team, which has been portrayed as hapless, indecisive, and unable to ship products. But the recent release of a surprisingly good Vista pre-Release Candidate 1 (pre-RC1) build, combined with internal information about the expected completion today of the actual Vista RC1 build that will ship in early September, suggests that the doomsayers suddenly have a lot less to talk about.

Given the lackluster quality of Vista's previous pre-release versions, I wasn't expecting such a sudden turnaround. But Vista build 5536, which Microsoft shipped late Friday, rights most of the past wrongs and offers major performance, compatibility, and fit-and-finish improvements, along with a heaping helping of bug fixes. Suddenly, I can use the phrase "it just works" in tandem with Vista and not burst into sardonic laughter. It's real this time. And, I have to say, it was quite unexpected.

You can find out more about the pre-RC1 build in my review "Windows Vista Build 5536 Review" at http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5536.asp . That build was given to technical beta testers and selected users over the weekend, and Microsoft MSDN and TechNet subscribers can expect to see it later this week. Most important, however, is that Microsoft will soon ship a true Vista RC1 build to millions of customers around the world. And if RC1 is anything like build 5536--and it should be--most of those people are going to be very happy indeed.

According to my sources, Microsoft plans to finalize Vista RC1 this afternoon. The build, 5568.16384, will ship internally today and will be seeded to customers next week if all goes well. To give you an idea of how momentous an occasion this is, consider that there were more than 825 bugs in the Vista RC1 build tree as recently as August 5. Today, that bug count is down to just 7, none of which are showstoppers or problems that would prevent Microsoft from shipping that code to customers.

So here's the schedule. Microsoft plans to ship RC1 publicly sometime in early September, probably right after Labor Day. Microsoft will finalize Vista in mid-to-late October and ship it to its volume-license customers in November. Consumers can expect to see Vista in retail stores and with new PC purchases beginning in late January 2007. A month ago, this schedule seemed overly aggressive, given the problems we were seeing in previous builds. Suddenly, unexpectedly, that's all changed.

This is excellent news! Can't wait to get it to replace my 2-year old HTPC. I need to buy another XBox360 to use it as HME for the game room. apple's going down for sure this time and I bet Microsoft will NOT help out this time. apple users, better switch now before it's too late. Be smart and take your losses and move on. google and apple will be just like netscape years ago. Zune is coming... Latest market share statistics: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2 ////////////////////////////////////////////////// bonch, go back to your room! your grandmother is home. bdkjones, you are just as retarded as bonch. //////////////////////////////////////////////////

As has been said before - a solid release will earn forgiveness for all delays. Here's to hoping Vista was worth the wait!

What a shock. Back on August 2, Paul called Vista, "Windows Titanic". At that time, I commented thusly: http://tinyurl.com/eg5tb "Paul knows full well that the Vista ("Vista has never been delayed"--Steve Ballmer) project is well on track. This is typical of Paul. It's reminds me of how he wrote a scathing review of Beta 2, only to marvel a month later at what a remarkable job MS had done improving things. Expect him back about 60 days from now raving about the miraculous comeback of Vista. I expect a headline, "New Management Steers Vista Ship in Right Direction" or something of the sort." Well, it only took 30 days, not 60, but here Paul is, raving about the incredible comeback. Just as I predicted. Like I said...what a shock.

"Well, it only took 30 days, not 60, but here Paul is, raving about the incredible comeback. Just as I predicted." So you don't believe him?

Actually, build 5536 is the first one to receive good reviews from most testers. The credit goes to the software programmers in Redmond who've been working day in and day out trying to make the OS usable. They deserve all the praise and a vacation for a job well done (when it finally ships).

From those I know that have it RC1 does seem a bit faster than Beta2. They still don't have all the drivers worked out, but it is moving along. Either way the limiting factor for me is going to be upgrading my main system. This will be purely a personal thing though... I've got plenty of horsepower as it is, Beta*1* runs as fast with aero as XP does right now; but when I do the switch, I want to be in a truely DX10 environment, hardware up.

this build is excellent quality. lightyears ahead of beta2. I hope they give us RC1 soon and I'll probably make it my primary OS. The UI is also quite improved. Even the plain default aero, outdoes apple's UI in everyway (well so did XP with non MS themes applied). Having said that, I'm really looking forward to 3rd party themes to tap the WPF. vista rocks.!

Oh and I have noticed that Paul does seem to sing the 'praises on high they fixed it!' right before MS releases a product. Its not my favorite style of reporting, but he does have news in his articles that you can yank out. So I deal with it.

lotsamystuff: The entire Windows community has been wondering about the state of Vista since Beta 2. Pauls review of that build were right on the money. That being said, is it so hard to believe that this pre-RC1 build could be so good? New management or not it looks like the programmers hunkered down adn worked like mofos. I mean, 818 bugs fixed in a little under a month? That's a hige pile of work. Kudos to them. Predict what Pual will say all you want. I don't think he'd be singing this builds praises if it completely sucked.

"So you don't believe him?" No, I didn't believe him before. If you had read my previous comments, you'd understand this. I think Paul was trolling for hits back then by making things seem worse than they were. He's brilliant in that respect.

" Pauls review of that build were right on the money." If it was so bad, he shouldn't have given it four "Paul Heads" on the SUPERSITE! FOR! WINDOWS! After all, this one gets Five Paul Heads, and that "buggy release" with "lackluster quality" was only one Head removed from this one, according to his published reviews. Whatever. It really doesn't matter, because Vista is on track to be a major release that will have Windows Zealots drooling all the way to Best Buy. Good for Microsoft...they could use a "win".

"I think Paul was trolling for hits back then by making things seem worse than they were. He's brilliant in that respect." His mood back then was inline with what other people thought. This must be the only windows site you read. www.longhornblogs.com

To be honest, who didn't expect this? The OS has been feature complete for months. It's Microsoft, not a garage operation. When you have thousands of people to throw at ironing out bugs, the bugs don't stand much of a chance. What I would really like to know is how the hell so many bugs got introduced. I mean, I understand that some bugs just show up... but Paul's been talking about things like the recent documents folder not showing recent documents. Did they really need to refine the code for that feature from Windows XP?

Lotsa, I'm sure "lotsa" more people than just Windows zealots will be purchasing Vista. That is a little bit of bonch-esque rhetoric that you are using there. And the drooling is no more, no less than iPeople when Apple is about to release their next "commandment". Now I'm piling on the rhetoric. However, I do agree with some of the points you are saying. Paul tends to be very sensationalist. If this was his personal blog, I really wouldn't have a problem with that (and he does use that as well, although he does not allow comments). But, this is Windows Informant on a site called Windows IT Pro. For all intensive purposes, he should use this site only for Windows related ventures. That has been my point of contention. Having said that, he certainly is allowed to have a change of opinion. I wonder if the school year starts early for bonch. Not a single comment so far today.

lotsa - I have to hand it to you...you were dead on. Paul does have a way of re-hashing his opinion!!! As far as Vista goes, I am sure that all of the bugs were ironed out due to a huge push to not delay the release if at all possible. I have seen many development projects put a huge QA push on as they near the delivery date. It is good to see MS is striving to not only deliver on time, but to deliver a quality product. bonch - what time does school get out for you...that way, I know when I can expect my daily dose of entertainment. I used to read User Friendly for that, but yours is so much better!!! --tayme

You know how Windows fanbois always make fun of OS X releases for costing $120 (when meanwhile, XP Pro costs $250)? --- FULL versions Windows Vista Ultimate $499 Windows XP Professional w/SP2 $429 Windows Vista Business $379 Windows Vista Home Premium $299 Windows Vista Home Basic $259 Windows XP Home w/SP2 $259 UPGRADE versions Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade $299 Windows XP Professional w/SP2 Upgrade $259 Windows Vista Business Upgrade $249 Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade $199 Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade $129 Windows XP Home w/SP2 Upgrade $129

Oh geez, here we go... Note to American readers: bonch is quoting prices in Canadian dollars, courtesy of Ed Bott: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/index.php?p=124

Yeah, but compare to OSX, we only have to pay ~$300 once (and get free upgrades) every 5 years instead of $120 every year for OSX upgrades.

I don't know if anyone would want to buy a new computer with Vista Basic. Ultimate doesn't look that expensive and IMO is a better value.

"we only have to pay ~$300 once" Who would do that? XP Pro w/SP2 cost me $145 for the full version. Only a woefully uninformed consumer would pay MSRP for a boxed in-store copy. The OEM version less than half of MSRP and only requires a "hardware" purchase. A $2 power splitter does in fact count as hardware. Thus bringing the total cost to $147 for any random person actually needing the full version. There is also another quandary. 99% of consumers would never buy a full version, just an upgrade. Plus they use XP home, so that's $99 (or $199 for an MSRP Pro upgrade, which can be had for 175-ish for a boxed copy).. If they actually needed a full version, that means they have no OS, which likely means they built their own machine. In which case they are smart enough to get an OEM version. In other words, does MS actually sell *any* retail "full" versions of their operating systems? Nonetheless, my OS purchasing total over the last 6 years has been.... $145. Had I been using a Mac, it would have been $600. That's just plain nuts... I spent appreciably $150 less for my Windows 2003 SBS *server* license (with Exchange).

But then again... My last post is also largely irrelevant when you consider it's currently impossible to do my career on anything other than Windows or Linux. And the $150 from my last sentence should have had parenthesis around it.

"Nonetheless, my OS purchasing total over the last 6 years has been.... $145. Had I been using a Mac, it would have been $600. That's just plain nuts..." OK, let's not get into another big Windows versus Apple skirmish here. But to correct your painfully flawed argument, no one is forced to upgrade from one OS X version to another. I, myself, didn't upgrade each time. If a consumer thinks that an upgrade is worth the money, he should get it. If not, then he shouldn't. Simple enough?

"What I would really like to know is how the hell so many bugs got introduced." 'so many bugs' didn't get introduced. Windows Vista is going to be vastly more interdependent than any other OS out there. 50+ layers deep at times. That means that one bug can propagate possibly hundreds others. The trick is finding the singularity where it all started, and thats what takes time. This isn't like debugging a hello world program. One person tests his code, it works fine... they put it in an alpha build with the rest of the code, 35 bugs pop up hidden in the nest, all the while his code still works fine even though it is the culprit.

"In other words, does MS actually sell *any* retail "full" versions of their operating systems?" Its a very very small percentage I believe. Probably only in the neighborhood of 3 to 4 times the number of OSX copies sold. The majority of Windows copies are sold through OEMs like Dell and HP, who buy millions of copies of the OSs at a marginally discounted price from MS.

"You know how Windows fanbois always make fun of OS X releases for costing $120 (when meanwhile, XP Pro costs $250)" you get what you pay for! nobody would pay for mac os even it's a 1/2 price. it's just a common sense. would you want to pay for a cheap video card at a price which you can get the top of the line one? Latest market share statistics: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2 ////////////////////////////////////////////////// bonch, go back to your room! your grandmother is home. bdkjones, you are just as retarded as bonch. //////////////////////////////////////////////////

Seriously cuibap, you need to stop posting with that tone. You're no more polite, and in some ways, meaner spirited than those you mock.

Thank you, Christopher. Maybe after Vista launches we can get the Windows team to come teach this site how to create verification images that are not written in Klingon.

until those 2 guys stop posting irrelevant notes, I will stop. I've been reading this sites for years but very upset about reading junks from them. I just started to post a few days ago. Latest market share statistics: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2 ////////////////////////////////////////////////// bonch, go back to your room! your grandmother is home. bdkjones, you are just as retarded as bonch. //////////////////////////////////////////////////

Cuibap: I understand you like Microsoft and dislike Apple. And while we may not agree, I don't post things like "This is the end for Microsoft! They'll be dead in a year." (Bonch does sometimes, but I don't speak for him.) Sure I like Macs and I prefer OS X. But that doesn't mean I think Windows is useless or that I want it to fail. I also don't think I'm retarded. I read and consider what everyone here, including Bonch, writes and I try to respond to what I can. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong, and sometimes I just disagree with the other people here. The point is, I at least try to discuss things. I don't simply hurl insults. You seem content, however, to just keep posting "Apple is dead" and personal attacks. If you really believe that Zune will dethrone the iPod, for instance, that's fine. But tell me why. And when I respond with something like, "but the iPod is a cultural icon - it's much more than just a gadget in many people's eyes" you should respond to that specific point, not just say "Microsoft can crush Apple, it's a bigger company." After all, at one point Apple was bigger than Microsoft... and Apple certainly didn't do any crushing. Christopher is a good role model. While I don't always agree with him and while I don't think he gives OS X server quite the credit it deserves, he does generally do a good job of responding point by point and offering good arguments. Follow his lead.

cuibap, please stop using the word, "retarded". It's derogatory. It's all right if you don't agree with bdkjones. A lot of people here don't. That doesn't mean you start calling him names.

"cuibap, please stop using the word, xxxxxx. It's derogatory." Yes, I have to agree... And I can't remember who, but I was pretty certain there is a parent who frequents this site who is raising a child under "extraordinary circumstances". Please don't use that particular word out of respect for them. It might sound innocent until you're sitting in their shoes. bdk: Thanks. We've certainly had our disagreements, but they've been intellectual for the most part. Nothing wrong with that... Frankly what chaps my hide is blind zealotry that overrides logic or any sense of consistency. For example, it's obvious we're opposite in our political alignments, but an extremist of any sort is an embarrassment. I don't care whose side they are on. (heck, I'd even tolerate a particular nameless apple-zealot if he could get from a-to-z and somehow visit all the letters in between).

And on subject... Has anyone (other than a certain author) installed 5536? I'm pretty happy with 5472, as it is a healthy improvement over Beta 2 and whatever dropped in June. I'm just curious about a corroborating experience. Granted I'll install RC1 anyway, but it would be interesting to know if everyone is noticing such a large improvement. I was expecting incremental build quality over the July CTP, and somehow it seems that the reports indicate a disproportionate amount of progress when compared to the headway between B2 and July. I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'm just wondering if most published accounts are based more on the delta since B2 since that was the last widely-public offering. I'm just trying to do some expectation management...

"while I don't think he gives OS X server quite the credit it deserves" It deserves credit? :D Sorry, couldn't let that one slide... Actually it might be fine for some industries and particular uses, however speaking from my perspective it's utterly incapable of doing anything I need. Linux, Solaris (and other widely deployed enterprise flavors of Unix), and Windows are the only viable options. I also contend that the Apple platform is a poor choice for end-to-end management of resources from phone systems, directories, access control, etc, but in perspective, they've built a product that can support their core business users -- who happen to almost entirely be creative shops. I'm sure that type of venture can get along perfectly fine on their platform. However you aren't going to see UPS and FedEx broadly deploying their technology. Everything might work for someone, but others need to realize what they use might not work for everyone (or be capable of doing so). It would be akin to insisting a soccer mom could ferry her 5 kids around in a Miata. Although I suppose this could work if one used the trunk and a judicious application of bungee cords. Or more succinctly, I don't like myopic thinking.

"Has anyone (other than a certain author) installed 5536?" I have, and the performance and stability is absolutely AMAZING! This is a must-upgrade for those running 5472. I installed it on my laptop in under 30 min. (including logging to my desktop), and so far the app compatability is great. There are *still* a few apps that are not compatible with Vista, and they are keeping me from using it as my primary OS. I am amazed at how *fast* apps run. I tried loading Excel, Word, PowerPoint, etc., and they all load in less than a second. *All* the apps I tried ran faster in Vista than XP on the *same* machine. Anyway, for those who cannot get this build, *make sure to install RC1.* You *will* be surprised (in a good way :-). BTW, I concur with Christopher and bdkjones re. cuibap. Once a person starts using ad hominem attacks, their credibility plummets. If you disagree with a person, state your argument using sound logic, backed up by evidence. Once people start using ad hominem attacks, the comment section tends to quickly degenerate into a flame war. "Although I suppose this could work if one used the trunk and a judicious application of bungee cords." Sounds like our family when we went camping :-).

Windows IT Pro. Which bit of the name is not clear? I access this site to get some informed comment. To troll thru the personal abuse posted is becoming somewhat wearing. Can we return the site to what it was intended for, or should I just stop wasting my time?

"Can we return the site to what it was intended for" And on that note, allow me to point those who haven't heard yet, in the direction of the Vista 5536 download page. http://download.windowsvista.com/preview/prerc1/en/download.html It's ridiculously fast *and* stable. So far only Media Player has crashed due to DivX being a badly written codec.

Thanks for the link Download is on its way.... Off topic I know, but I think its kinda funny that everyone is complaining about Bdkjones being insulted (and rightly so - Cui), but no-one has complained on Bonch's behalf.......

Hi everyone, I went on this this site primarily for the purpose of learning new stuff, everything related Windows ONLY, not Mac OS, Linux, etc. But lately, posts from those like bonch really bother me (and propably most people on this site) This is the only way to make a big deal out of it and once for all, get rid of this kind of trash talk. Hopefully, bonch will read this and give it a thought. bdkjones, ""apple's market share is so small, should not even be mentioned in the computer industry." "Congrats, Cuibap. You now hold the title for "stupidest thing ever said relating to technology." You've also clearly shown your age. I'm guessing about 14-16. I think that fits your poor grammar and the fact that you have no idea what was around before Windows. Even people on these boards like Christopher will admit that Apple is a legendary name in the computer industry. You can't really explain where the PC came from without talking about Apple and Xerox PARC." you attacked me first for no reason and that's the reason I had the signature like that on every post. Like I said, this is Windows only web site, not Mac, not Linux. I work with Windows everyday and definitely don't give a damn about Apple. It might be "legenday" but I don't look at the past and hope. Windows is here for a long time and you have to admit it. What I meant about not mentioning apple in the industry solely because I want to get rid of bonch. And again, this site is for Windows only so why come here and trash talk about Windows. Sure, every software on the plannet has bugs, more lines of code will have more bugs. That's how it works. If you don't like Windows, pick other OSes. This is free country and certainly you have a choice. If you want to mention bugs in Windows, please do as many of us come here for that as well. I hope there will be no more trash talk on this site.

"But lately, posts from those like bonch really bother me (and propably most people on this site)" dude, you need a mirror

For us jaded individuals that play on multiple platforms, and have for a very long time, Vista is just another OS that must be beaten down into submission. There are things I like about it, and things I hate about it. The things I hate usually are M$ attempts to "make my life easier". Read that as an attempt to tie me to some "Latest New Thing" that M$ thinks I should be interested in so they can make money. I expect I'll be seeing Vista roll in on new preloaded machines after the 1st of the year. I'd rather be nearer the center of the bell curve. As the Beatles said "Nothing to get up about"!

Just another new OS to conquer. Like some of it, hate some of it. Since I have users that are still learning features of XP, I can't say I am looking forward to Vista all that much. I expect to see Vista rolling in on preloaded systems in early 2007,but I'd rather be nearer the middle of the bell curve. As the Beatles said "Nothing to get up about."

"Vista is just another OS that must be beaten down into submission." "Just another new OS to conquer." Ok... thats certainly a different take on it... Just don't go into a Best Buy with a rifle and a safari hat ok?