Reader Comments

If it slips, it slips. The firm won't make any friends if they ship bugger-than-usual-1.0 code, so the smart money's on letting it bake. What's the deal with this arbitrary release date around year end anyway? If you've missed the holiday season, who cares when you release in Q1?

I like to see it this year but ha beter it silps then haveing lots of bugs in it. Any one know what the two major issues were? and is there a date set for RC1 yet?

A "release candidate" should mean "a candidate for release". But it will not be. In Microsoft-speak, as far as I can grok, "release candidate 1" means "advanced beta".

I suspect the reason they are afraid to let it slip is that they will be tempted to "re-do" things which will result in a messy quagmire that will delay them months more. I bet they think, the best thing is to crack the whip and get something workable out the door on schedule. Once done they can review the results and develop a good service pack(s) for it.

I'm thinking they're trying to get the Corporate version out in time for the 2007 fiscal year. It's going to be a lot easier to get people to buy Vista if they don't have to wait for it to get their 07 computers. Since they definitely can't make the holiday consumer season, it doesn't matter if they ship in 07.

Microsoft may be claiming they'll meet that schedule now, but who's going to believe them when they've broken their promises so many times before? Come on, we all know this release to corporations is just a ploy to make it seem like they're "on track" in their release schedule. Meanwhile, corporations will be getting an early, buggy build of Vista that they won't install because it's not even good enough for consumer use. Only Microsoft would treat a Release Candidate as a beta. The earlier Vista ships to the public, the buggier and more riddled with security holes it will be. I can't wait to witness the disaster.

"I can't wait to witness the disaster." After flirting with moderation for a couple of days, you're finally back to your normal self. I'm glad the dog's tail was finally straightened, even if it was only for two days. Microsoft is not lying. All it's saying is that as things stand now, Vista will be released as per schedule. That doesn't mean there won't be any further delays.

This is not an OS that's going to be used by 50 people around the world, so, it's good if Microsoft delays it if it feels it's not ready.

MS - if you're listening. Please delay the product if it's not 100% ready. We dont' want a release version that's really a beta. Shipping a rock solid product will earn forgiveness for all delays.

I hope Vista is a success. I'd love to see the look on the faces of people like bdkjones, bonch, etc. who pray for a Vista disaster in Church then.

"After flirting with moderation for a couple of days, you're finally back to your normal self. I'm glad the dog's tail was finally straightened, even if it was only for two days. Microsoft is not lying." Of course they are. They've been lying for years now. Every year, Vista was supposd to come out. WinFS was supposed to be one of the "pillars of Longhorn." Etc. "All it's saying is that as things stand now, Vista will be released as per schedule. That doesn't mean there won't be any further delays." What. The. Hell? They're saying they'll release on schedule, but that doesn't mean there won't be further delays? Either you're on schedule or you're not. "This is not an OS that's going to be used by 50 people around the world..." According to the analysts, yes, it will. Only 35% adoption is expected by 2008. P.S. Apple has 15% worldwide marketshare of about 19 million OS X users. "I hope Vista is a success. I'd love to see the look on the faces of people like bdkjones, bonch, etc. who pray for a Vista disaster in Church then." Don't worry, it will be a flop. People are flocking to OS X in droves to use a clean, modern operating system that doesn't rely on a registry, antivirus, antispyware, firewall, and registry cleaner software, and doesn't just clone everything Apple does. Windows is for playing videogames, like The Sims. Macs are for getting real work done. With Boot Camp 1.1, they're the only PC you'll ever need.

"This is not an OS that's going to be used by 50 people around the world, so, it's good if Microsoft delays it if it feels it's not ready." http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?story_id=1110083YRM69 A survey of 207 companies released by Jupiter Research last week shows that nearly 50% of these 100-plus-employee outfits will wait at least 13 months after release to deploy Vista -- or won't deploy it at all.

"I'd love to see the look on the faces of people like bdkjones, bonch, etc. who pray for a Vista disaster in Church then." Something like, "Give us today our daily bread and may Microsoft forever be in the red?"

"Either you're on schedule or you're not." Bonch: You can be on schedule today and have issues that put you behind schedule later. That is exactly what he is saying when he says "as it stands today".

"With Boot Camp 1.1, they're the only PC you'll ever need." So Bonch, you are saying that the only way a MAC is the PC you need is if it runs Windows?

Bonch it's like you're soooo far out of touch of reality it is pointless arguing with you, so I won't. In other news, there have been a few reporters who have seen RC1 and have been amazed by it. Apparently once they got their act together Vista started coming together rather quickly. One sad story though is probably going to be compatibility. Though I remember when XP came out and there were compatibility packs made shortly after release that dealt with a lot of problematic software. I expect to see those for Vista as well which should resolve a lot of initial issues. I wish Paul would do a compatibility review when RC1 comes out like he did for an earlier review. So far games are the most affected, but they tend to be made by cowboy programmers.

"P.S. Apple has 15% worldwide marketshare of about 19 million OS X users." That's a fun fact. Unfortunately it is not conforming to the laws of mathematics. There are 921 million distinct users of the Internet worldwide (some of those users on multiple machines). If you divide your 19M by 921M you get... Drum roll please... 2%. Now, if we assume your 15% is correct, that would mean that there are 138M Apple computers worldwide (on the Internet, presuming each user owns only one computer). And I hate to break it to you, but they've never made that many. If you sum every single computer they've made since the start of the company, multiply it by 5, then you might arrive at 138M. Never mind the fact the survey doesn't count non-Internet users, of which there are a substantial number of those as well, thus further diluting your 15% back down to the real number of 2%.

Granted my prior message really goes against your claim of installed base, which is always way off... Regarding instantaneous market share. They had 15% of the *retail* market for laptops in one quarter only, and in the US *only*. The retail market accounts for roughly 25-30% of all computers sold. Thus, when you count their total instantaneous market share among the entire market (including corporate, direct sales, etc), they had 4% of all laptops sold (in totality). Which is only a tiny bit higher than the mid-to-upper 3% range they've been running for any number of years. In other words, you're drinking the extremist-talk-radio cool-aid again. They'll use whatever semantic language makes them sound the most impressive. Next year they'll be saying "We sold to 100% of the market for people buying Apple computers!!!" Or, "Of people thinking about buying a computer that used a fruit-shaped logo, we had 98% of sales!"

"Windows is for playing videogames, like The Sims. Macs are for getting real work done. " Nice to see an original thought from a Mac zealot. We've never heard this one before.

Bonch, do you think before you write stuff, or do you just let anything fly? The 15% is a totally false number. No where is there data that backs up that claim in the least, especially, by your own words, you say that is worldwide OS share (which it is well known that Apple's worldwide share is even lower). See here for some analysis stating that the figure is more like 2%, which rational people would agree with: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Owns-96-97-of-Global-OS-Market-33363.shtml This is not that different from other stuff we have read. Obsolete Windows 98 still garners more users than Mac OS. Bonch, start with reality, and compare on capabilities, not marketshare if you want to win this argument. And using your own figures, even if only 35% of Windows users upgraded, it would STILL give Vista a marketshare that is many times greater than the Mac OS. Of course this figure comes from none other than Jupiter Research and Joe Wilcox, a well known Apple shill. But let's look at that 35% adoption rate by *2008*. Hmm, Vista won't even be released until Q1 2007, giving them 9 months or so to reach a 35% adoption rate. Seems pretty good to me. Corporations are always slow to catch up with this, so they will naturally be waiting until Vista has been out for some time. unlike the typical Mac user, corporations require guarantees that they software they have in place will work, and neither do they want to upgrade on a yearly basis, or even every 2-3 years. I'd love to ignore bonch, but I can't. Just waiting for September when schools starts. Then we can get some "real" work done here.

er... not to show up thurrot, but... http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=4192 and http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=4191 Build 5700 is at TechEd?

"Of course they are. They've been lying for years now. Every year, Vista was supposd to come out. WinFS was supposed to be one of the "pillars of Longhorn." Etc." I know it is fruitless, but hey. bonch, I don't think you know what a lie is. Here: A lie is a statement made by someone who believes or suspects it to be false What Microsoft did is make a mistake, they then corrected their mistake by telling people they are not going to include said features, or release on said date. Intention and knowledge play a big role in lying. The Intention was what Microsoft said according to the knowledge that they possesed. It would have been a lie if they never planned on releasing it on that date, or to include those features. Maybe someday when you graduate from High School and are living in the real world, you will realize that just because you think something is true, that does not mean it is. Try reflecting and analyzing what you are saying, you will no doubt come to the same conclusion as the rest of us, that you spread needless FUD supported by immature remarks.

"Try reflecting and analyzing " Sorry, I meant "Try reflectin on and analyzing what you are saying"

"Maybe someday when you graduate from High School and are living in the real world, you will realize that just because you think something is true, that does not mean it is." What makes you think he's just not an adult who acts irrationally and irresponsibly? They do exist you know.

Yahoo: I don't want Vista to fail. Not at all, actually. And, at the same time, I don't want Apple to capture 97% of the OS market and replace Microsoft. In fact, I'm quite happy with the way things at Apple are going. We are the BMW's of computers. (Or the Ferrari, if you prefer.) The best and brightest minds (you know, the creative people) are on our side and all the little gerbils in cubicles and their IT masters are on Windows. And all the scientists in between couldn't really care less what computers run their labs. I want Vista to be great for all of Paul's acolytes. Really, I do. I think you guys deserve something better than XP. Seriously, I like being the minority. The underdog, if you will. It's the source of Apple's "Can Do No Wrong" power. I'd like to see us get up to about 10 or 15% marketshare, and I think that goal is very viable. Now... it is true that I sometimes wish a gigantic meteor would destroy Redmond. Back in college when Windows cost me 6 hours of writing on a thesis I looked up some info on suitcase nuclear bombs. When PowerPoint locked up in a presentation I thought how nice it would be if Steve Ballmer got AIDS... but I have NEVER prayed for Microsoft to fail. Mainly because God already uses a Mac. ; )

"Mainly because God already uses a Mac. ; )" Is this because you think Jobs is God or because you think the other God likes making movies? :P

"Any one know what the two major issues were?" I think one of them is about the time synchronization feature in 5520, someone said it wouldn't synchronize properly, so they had to fix it.

Experiences of a Mac noob: http://blog.criticalwebdesign.co.uk/blog/experiences-of-a-mac-noob/ A guy converts to a new 20" Intel iMac after using Windows since Windows 3.1 A good summary of the sensation of amazement when you see how behind Windows is and how much better OS X functions. This is the same process you guys will be going through soon.

All hail the priest bonch!

"This is the same process you guys will be going through soon." Actually, I don't speak Fisher-Price.

"A guy converts to a new 20" Intel iMac after using Windows since Windows 3.1" Wow!!! He switched to a Mac? Wooooow!!! That's great news, bonch. Have fun with your honies while the rest of us keep the economy going.

"In Microsoft-speak, as far as I can grok, 'release candidate 1' means 'advanced beta'." - GuidStephen Or in other words it should be a gamma release.

Demo of Expose and Space running at the same time that Microsoft will no doubt be copying in the next version of Windows. Look how intuitive this is! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1254656550190215821

I hate to tell you this, but Bonch does have a point (even though he's hammering it with a 25 pound sledge): 99% of switchers I've worked with are flat out blown away when they get their first Mac. Especially if someone sits down and walks them through all the neat stuff. This does not seem to be the case with Windows. Everyone there seems to have the attitude, "Eh." Even the people who are seeing Vista for the first time. No one's really excited about it the way a new Mac user is. And no matter what, the Expose within Spaces feature is freaking hot. Anyway, if you get past the rhetoric, Bonch does have good points there.

I just realized I have a little proof to back up my claim: Lotsa, (even though he's not a new mac user) was recently very pleasantly surprised when his DVD burner just worked with OS X. For those of you who missed it, I said, "Any hardware made within the last 6 years will simply automatically work with a Mac when you plug it in, as long as it's a mainstream-type hardware device." Lotsa took that as a challenge and tried to prove me wrong with his DVD burner. Needless to say, it just worked. While it may not be revolutionary, this event sums up what most switchers like about their new Mac best - it just freaking works. At least, that's what they tell me.

"And no matter what, the Expose within Spaces feature is freaking hot." So hot that you can make omlettes on them. Don't waste your time here, bdkjones. Go to a Mac forum and where you and other like-minded people can drool over features in OS X. I don't intend to be rude, but most of us here really don't care about the Mac because our income comes from using Windows.

"99% of switchers I've worked with are flat out blown away when they get their first Mac. Especially if someone sits down and walks them through all the neat stuff." I'll admit to a small point with what you have to say. Let me give the timeline of my first experiences with a Mac, Hour 0 - 0.5: Wow, this is pretty neat, nice and smooth, transistions are nice. Hour 0.5 - 1: Ok... I click some programs, they come up, others they just kinda sit for a second, I can see the cracks now. Hour 1 - 2: This is getting rediculous, yes I see your pretty minimize animation, thats just grand, now get the f***ing window out of the way already... dragging these thigns feels like truging through water. At least with linux I can just say screw it and tab to another desktop. Hour 2.5 - 3(shutdown): Ah ha, clever. Someone told Apple that permanent hang is better than crash. Anyone who says Photoshop runs better on Mac than PC is an ignorant tard. And this GUI makes me feel like I'm trying to peel an apple while wearing 3 sets of snow gloves. The shell is just different enough from linux/unix to be annoying. It takes the wingspan of an albatross to use the system-level interrupt. Honey, I'm done riding the gokarts, give me my car back. I've got a friend from an IT department I used to work at a few years back, this guy has been hardcore windows since before I can remember. If you want something awe inspiring, I've never seen someone use the windows GUI in an more efficient manner, he's blisteringly fast. That says volumes about the flexibility of Windows. Yes, grandma can fiddle around and get what she needs done, the OS accomadates that... but it also accomidates people who need to work in a much more serious no-bs/no-frills way. When you have 5000 users offline and they need to be online now, the last thing you need to see is a bloody pinwheel and flippy window art.

I think a majority of us here have at least used a Mac, or at leastI hope we have just to get "the other side of the story". It's also likely that we've used Linux, again because the experience is important in order to let us make an informed choice. And there's the thing. From my point of view, I have used Windows, Mac OS and a seriously large number of Linux distros, and my choice of OS for my personal use is still Windows. I will also point out that this experience is something that I keep updating. When Leopard comes out, I'll update my experiences with the Mac, even though I honestly don't expect anything to really change till OS XI. I'll switch when my own experience say Mac OS is better, not when Bonch, bdkjones or anyone else tells me I should.

For most Aplle use like Bronch Jobs is God. Were most of user of Mircosoft no that Bill is not God. as for two major issues with vista Thanks unMatChedProWess for that on you posted. and does any one speak Fisher-Price?

bonch - in case you didn't notice, while you were on vacation with you parents ricdding the kiddie rides at Disney World last wee, who ever you asked to sit in for you did a poor job...thye were fairly rational and did not spew trash like you do. What day does school start for you? I can't wait!!! --tayme

"and does any one speak Fisher-Price?" ...and can you type a coherent post?

bdkjones - "99% of switchers I've worked with are flat out blown away when they get their first Mac. Especially if someone sits down and walks them through all the neat stuff." Yes, the eye candy in nice...it is a nice looking OS...and great for surfing the web, making movies, and it even works good for sending emails...but what can it provide to the corporate world other than that? My 17 year old son thinks that the iMac is so cool, especially photobooth and garage-band. Come on, talk about an OS for playing games!!! --tayme

Tayme, this is exactly what I've been saying over and over again. Lotsa gets it, but bonch and bdk do not. I'm an IT Pro, and I don't see any application for a Mac in my environment. I can see Linux, appliances are also "hot" if you will, and of course I can see Windows, but the Mac OS has not provided anything that I could honestly want to spend money on. Since this site is called Windows IT Pro, and this article was even an article explicitly about Windows, all of this Mac bantering is annoying. I don't like when Paul brings up the Mac because it has nearly zero to do with the corporate IT world.

bmnbmn - you are preaching to the choir with me. I am in full agreement. Like you, I am an IT Pro...the only area in my hospital that us Macs is the marketing department. They insist on it because that is waht they are confortable with from thier college days. I try to stay informed on as much as I can, which is why at home, I have PCs with XP, 2 distros of Linux, and an iMac. I try to ignore most of the comments from bonch and the like, but sometimes I have to comment. --tayme

Windows is inherently more vulnerable to malware than OS X because of the registry (which Vista still uses): http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/08/is_windows_inhe.html