Reader Comments

Apple is a dying relic! Microsoft rules the software market! (I can feel the "bonch" growing in me already!)

What do they mean by "put in escrow". Is it they are just reserving the build number ? Or is that the whole kit 'n kaboodle? If the later, according to the article Windows Vista RTM code will be ready by end of September? Thanks

Hey, before Bonch gets here, I'll let you guys in on a little secret if you haven't heard this from someone else already. Does anyone actually know what the word "bonch" means? Check this out: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bonch

Anyway, Build 5381 was the "put in escrow" build for Beta 2 and 5384 was the one they released. They're probably giving 5520 to the pre-almost-RC1 testers to find any small errors they might have missed. A subsequent build will probably be released to the public not too long after feedback gets to MS. What I'm wondering is: How can Vista be released when it has so many incompatibilities with all the software we use?

"Does anyone actually know what the word "bonch" means?" You're a day late and a dollar short, unMatched. I reported this days ago. As I said then, it makes sense... Now, on to the topic at hand: It's nice to see that "Windows Titanic" (as it was coined by the esteemed Paul Thurrott) has managed to avoid the delay iceberg and is now sailing blissfully towards its destination. Crisis averted.

What Paul doesn't mention is that Microsoft is releasing a half-hearted October build to businesses, and businesses aren't going to install an unfinished product. This is just to fulfill support contracts that enterprises signed. The fact Paul doesn't mention this ANYWHERE is shocking, considering he first reported that business users would be getting Vista first months ago. It's proof he doesn't report based on technical knowledge and is just an emotional hack. I'm overjoyed at the news that Microsoft plans to release Vista so bleedingly early. It means it will be massively buggy and crashy, and security hackers will have a field day ripping apart all the new version 1.0 APIs. I can't wait!

That is great news. Now I just hope Dell doesn't start using its batteries for their Alienware laptops when I order one in January. =/

Windows is officially five times more expensive for users than OS X: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/660E746C-F388-4AC7-98F5-6CB951501472.html Apple Computer tops PC satisfaction study: http://news.com.com/PC+users+cant+get+no+satisfaction/2100-1041_3-6105569.html

"Apple is a dying relic! Microsoft rules the software market!" Uh, Apple's sales and market share are growing (never mind OneStat, which draws from a group of web servers for its statistics), while Microsoft's revenues are down. Windows has become irrelevant as the web and digital media have taken over--Apple's and Google's markets. Maybe you guys like using a third-rate clone of MacOS that only exists due to a technical licensing agreement in 1986, but I prefer using the OS from the company that first began consumer GUI desktops. Windows is full of Apple-isms. Have fun on Patch Tuesday! By the way, did you notice Paul mocked Apple for having a "whopping" 26 vulnerabilities patch last Friday, but DIDN'T SAY A WORD when Microsoft patched 23 on Tuesday? Interesting, isn't it? The reason is that Paul is still stinging from the beatdown he recieved from critics after his bizarre criticisms of Apple's WWDC that revealed his total lack of technical knowledge and his status as a non-technical journalist. He's Dvorak with Microsoft connections.

"Apple is a dying relic! Microsoft rules the software market!" Uh, Apple's sales and market share are growing (never mind OneStat, which draws from a group of web servers for its statistics), while Microsoft's revenues are down. Windows has become irrelevant as the web and digital media have taken over--Apple's and Google's markets. Maybe you guys like using a third-rate clone of MacOS that only exists due to a technical licensing agreement in 1986, but I prefer using the OS from the company that first began consumer GUI desktops. Windows is full of Apple-isms. Have fun on Patch Tuesday! By the way, did you notice Paul mocked Apple for having a "whopping" 26 vulnerabilities patch last Friday, but DIDN'T SAY A WORD when Microsoft patched 23 on Tuesday? Interesting, isn't it? The reason is that Paul is still stinging from the beatdown he recieved from critics after his bizarre criticisms of Apple's WWDC that revealed his total lack of technical knowledge and his status as a non-technical journalist. He's Dvorak with Microsoft connections.

Hrm. Personally I would welcome a delay just to make sure the final project is not a disaster. On that note, yes Vista will be released for businesses in October but none of them are going to adopt it right away. Hopefully this will give MS a bit more time to iron out any bugs and problems for the Janurary release. Even then, most people will hold off until SP 1 anyway.

"...just to make sure the final project is not a disaster." Sorry about that. I meant to say "the final PRODUCT".

Yes, the bad PR due to a buggy product will be worse than bad PR due to delay in release.

Good job of ignoring the troll, guys. I agree with some of you that I wouldn't mind a delay in the release of Vista to make sure that everything is cool. Most businesses won't move to a new OS until SP1 anyway, so the rush doesn't make sense, unless Microsoft is confident that they've ironed out all the major problems.

"On that note, yes Vista will be released for businesses in October but none of them are going to adopt it right away. Hopefully this will give MS a bit more time to iron out any bugs and problems for the Janurary release." There won't be any changes between what's released in October and what's released in January. Remember, those extra months are required for such activities as CD Burning and for PC manufacturers to prepare their PCs with Vista bundled. There's no time for taking (and acting upon) feedback from the October release and somehow feeding it back into the product by January.

>>Windows is officially five times more expensive for users than OS X: This was quite the entertaining read. The only 'official' thing about this write up is that the author is an tool. Even the Mac fans in his comments are crying foul about his bogus GeekSquad servicing costs for XP. Interesting to learn though that it took Apple 3 attempts before they got OSX to a state that they deemed 'mainstream ready'.

"There won't be any changes between what's released in October and what's released in January." True, but by January, Microsoft will have had time to make patches to newly discovered security holes and consumers will have a *slightly* better OS than businesses who get Vista first.

"There's no time for taking (and acting upon) feedback from the October release and somehow feeding it back into the product by January." Except they'll be prepping hot fixes for release through Windows Update. They just have to get the base version out before January. The intervening time can be used to find and fix bugs.

"Yes, the bad PR due to a buggy product will be worse than bad PR due to delay in release." Call me crazy but I see no reason why it shouldn't be released. It has shaped up nicely. I thought Beta 2 was a far way off from release, but the July CTP is quite decent. It isn't flawless, but there were very, very few issues compared to what I noticed only 2-3 months prior. One problem I've had is with the ATI driver, so it isn't MS's problem, and the other is a media player issue, which isn't really a core stability problem, and I expect will be remedied in short order. The only problem will be 3rd party hardware vendors getting their new drivers in order. That takes some time. The driver switchover between 9x and 2000 wasn't overnight, fortunately Vista has more similarities with XP than did the 2000 driver model with 9x. The only real issue is some third party software is still problematic, but this is largely due to poorly written software. For instance many games presume they have admin access instead of defaulting to using the writable "my docs" folder for saves. I've noticed several application issues as well, but these were all related to the same poor software architecture. Realistically, no one is holding a gun to users' heads. If legacy software is really an issue, use XP. It's not like it will vanish tomorrow. I expect it will be awhile before the vast majority coders learn how to properly write secure software, now that the underlying OS basically will demand it.

"Even then, most people will hold off until SP 1 anyway." This is nothing new, and not unique to Vista. Most businesses wait until SP1 for almost any product, either by design, or because they're just not early adopters. The transition to Vista won't be overnight, just as it wasn't for XP. At the end of the day, I think we all agree that releasing a stable, secure OS is more important than any PR hits delivered due to a delayed release date.

Want to see an example of Microsoft's wonderful interface design? Move your mouse cursor to an empty space on your taskbar and click on the very bottom pixel of the screen. The cursor miraculously moves up by three pixels! If they're this sloppy with the interface, imagine how bad it is under the hood. Microsoft's own developers refer to the Windows codebase as "overly complex" and "broken."

bonch, dude, relax.

Apple has released version 1.1 of Boot Camp! Another reason the Mac is the only PC you'll ever need. Gotta love the blurbs on the website: "Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries."

"" My exact response (See the other article released on the 15th)! "Call me crazy but I see no reason why it shouldn't be released. It has shaped up nicely. " My thoughts exactly. The difference between the latest builds is quite dramatic. I am looking forward to RC1 (proported to be in the 55xx range). I have had the same experience regarding drivers and apps. Only a few refuse to work in Vista. Once they run on Vista, I will switch and run it as my main OS. ---------------------------------- I have a hypothesis regarding our favorite troll. Every time he posts an article regarding Apple, check Digg. I can almost guarantee that *the exact same* article will be posted there. I have been tracking this for the past week, and almost *every single article* comes from digg, and most of those are marked innacurate by the Diggers. (speaking of Digg, an interesting article was posted on Vista; I guess MS is hiring the famous Polish hacker group (LSD) to test Vista. The team received *full* access to Vista, including *all of the source code.* Link: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2001963,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594 )

bonch I think I speack for most off us here when I say We don't give a damm about your Microsoft Bashing, or the fact that you think Apple is the greats think in the world. So if you have someting worth sameing about the topic say it rth saying. If not SHUT THE HELL UP! I'm sick of your Crack. Now have said that I linke to see Vista RC1 soon that way if Microsoft need to they can do a RC2 if need. And that way it may still get it out by RTM for October.

"I think I speack for most off us here when I say We don't give a damm about your Microsoft Bashing, or the fact that you think Apple is the greats think in the world." Why don't you turn that criticism toward Paul Thurrott, who bashed Apple in the disproved OneStat article posted before this one? Have fun waiting until next year to get your lame rip-off of OS X Tiger from April of 2005. Christ, you guys don't even have a system-wide spellchecker for all text input controls like we Mac users do. And Leopard is even adding a grammar checker! Studies have shown that Mac users make more money and have more demanding jobs than Windows users do. Frankly, we're typically smarter and more demanding of our hardware and software. God, have you seen Windows Live Messenger? There are like 15 sidebar tabs running down the side, 20 buttons at the top, and a gigantic banner ad at the bottom. ROFL! iChat is just a clean, minimalist window with a buddy list. Just one example of many of Apple's vastly superior design and technology.

3 Refreshes "Why don't you turn that criticism toward Paul Thurrott, who bashed Apple in the disproved OneStat article posted before this one?" Bonch, In case you hadn't noticed this is a Windows site, not an Apple one. We come here to read about Windows, not your mindless, boring, repetitive, imbicilic rants about Apple. Take the hint buddy. GO AWAY. You have no respect, I don't care what you say, I will never, ever buy a piece of Apple equipment in my life now thanks to you. I worry that doing so will turn me into the anal retetive you have become. So in summary, since you are obviously sooo intelligent and earn sooo much more money than me - although I don't know how as you seem to spend all of your waking moments on here - GO AWAY. I'm sure someone as intelligent as you can understand that.

Nice find, Paul. Thanks for posting it. Ladies and gentlemen, please don't feel the trolls.

bonch, look at your explorer address bar and read what you just typed: windowsitpro... is your spellchecker turned on right now? let's make sure it is, press the ON button... that one with the figure of a number 1 within the 0. There you go. Try typing "Apple" again, it would probably take you to the right place... :) there you go. wow, good boy. Real Subect --// The big thing about corporations upgrading and making such a dramatic change is that they oftently don't make such changes within years. I've signed for various network manteinance contracts with corporations using Windows NT 4.0 Workstation yet. And many other corporations still use Windows 2000 and even Windows 2000 Server; So I really don't spect the majority making the switch for next year; It may take a few more years if we want to see a drasticall change though.

Bonch what whow do you know i don't own a Apple as well as a PC you just type with out thinking don't you? If there is any one looking at but a Apple there not like to buy one after reading you crap all the time. If I want to criticism Paul Thurrott! I 'll do it in a email to him and not put it on the site where you can read it. I don't mind the fact you so Happy with your Apple but we don't real care don't you get it. were here to read about windows stuff after all it is a windows site for the most part and this is a windows post last time i checked! As for how much money you make that you keep say put up or shut up about it tell ever one the real amount you make. I bet you any money you make there will be more then one persos that make more then you. Plus demanding jobs does always pay more! So lest apple more windows OK.

"...Beta 3 release in first quarter 2007, an RC2 release in second quarter 2007, and the final release in the second half of 2007..." That's the bottom line for many of us. That's the schedule Microsoft is shooting for. I don't feel it was highlighted enough from the article. ---------------------- I've been avoiding it for about six months now and it's just become too rediculous. Orion, Christopher, lotsa, nate, yahoo, shark, about two others and myself. Seems like the only worth while discussion here these days comes from a small handfull of us. Thanks guys, even though we don't always agree. I don't post here for anyone else anymore cause I honestly don't expect a good discussion from anyone else. That's sad. I can still remember three years ago when Paul used to comment back with us one by one. I know you have a family and a life Paul, but atleast back then you used to moderate. Something is gonna give somewhere, it's hard to find room to discuss your articles when two thirds of the comments are off topic, or telling Bonch to go away.

DerekTraver I just try to let Bonch know that I like more discuss on Paul's articles and less Mircosoft bad Apple good crap I like to put more in to the discuss of Paul's articles but when ever anyone make a point or saids some thing Bonch just have to do his crap. And I'm sick and tie of reading his it. I have try not to let it get to me but there on so much off it i can put up with. If it happen some where elsc he would not be alound to get away with it i'm shore. Any how sorry if i go on about it! I'll try if Bonch will. reading what you have ""...Beta 3 release in first quarter 2007, an RC2 release in second quarter 2007, and the final release in the second half of 2007..." That's the bottom line for many of us. That's the schedule Microsoft is shooting for. I don't feel it was highlighted enough from the article." Is that for Vista? is it seems to me that it more like for LONGHORN SERVER time line. But If that the case Ok by me! I want VISTA now but I Like it to be great out the door and not to have to donwload heaps of UPDATES as soon as I install it.

ra- hope you don't mind if I call you that... I have to rephrase my original comment. Perhaps the server editions are not most awaited by most of us. Single user experience in Vista will be just as good as Mac OS X. I love my macs, but I also have a lot of faith and excitement about Vista as well. It may restore some of my enthusiastic Windows days before I switched to Fedora and OS X. The more I see, the more Windows and OS X actually seem alike in almost every aspect. XP is a different story to me, but Vista functions like I want an OS to function and it looks just as professional as OS X. If it's stable, secure, and makes you happy then it doesn't matter when it comes out. Oppionion though; the single user experience is more tricky than business in this aspect, as when it comes to something in our home we often want more than a tool. Vista potential for an excellent home user experience is highly promising, I'm as eagar as you. ------------ I shouoldn't be upset with anyone in particular about off topic discussion, and I agree with you on a lot of things. This is a blog with a comments section and not a real forum, so Bonch gets away with being a troll. Remember though that Bonch can only accomplish diverting discussion away from the articles with Apple vs. Microsoft debates if we feed the fire. It's the perfect bait to dissrupt good discussions with flaming and trolling though, so I understand it's not easy to ignore. What's makes me mad though is when one fanatical person can give an entire user base a bad rep. I'm an OS X user, and am generally associated with having the same relentless perspective as people like Bonch. Even if I make good points from being a cross-platform user on legitimate topics, I get treated like a zealot. Let's just say that coming to a Windows site and starting war in every comment section is not the way to get people to open up to multiple systems outside of the Windows environment, even if similar. -cheers

(7 refreshes) DerekTraver Fantastic post, one of the best i've seen on this board Alan.

Thank you alan, much appreciated.

DerekTraver It ok to call me ra! if I could find were to fix it that be what it saids. I try not to call all Apple user zealot. I get what you mean by your rephraseing of your post. I'm with Alan best post I have read in a while. keep the coming. Did you see the video at channel9 web site that had stuff on Longhorn server was a while back you still can find it. post in late May or early June it worth a look at if you want more infomation on the Longhorn server it look like it be stable, secure and look down big time. worth a look. as for vista I have bein look at it from the first time I herad about it and I have to say It will be worth the wait and I think MS is doing it right this time not makeing a OS and runing it out the door. I don't know how Apple do it! Any way Vista will be worth the wait. I'm Hoping to be running Vista as one of my main os from RC1 on.

"I think MS is doing it right this time not makeing (SIC) a (SIC) OS and runing (SIC) it out the door." Um... really? You think it took them 5 years to make Vista because they were just so darned worried about getting everything right? It's been about a month since Paul posted his article "Is Vista ready for prime time?" where he concluded: "No, oh God no." From that point, Microsoft has about 3.5 months to get Vista ready for an RTM in late September. Three and a half months to go from "no, oh God no" to release to manufacturing. 3.5 months certainly seems rushed to me.

"Three and a half months to go from "no, oh God no" to release to manufacturing." A lot can happen in 3.5 months. We're talking strained marriges due to 15 hour days and weekend shifts. We're talking daily build after daily build. Sure, they may be rushing NOW - but imagine what this version of Windows would have been like had they released it in 2003?