Reader Comments

my mac crashed.

Here are some screenshots and info: Screenshots http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windowsvista/default.mspx

Good stuff! Yawn!

>>my mac crashed. Please pack up any computers that you use. Send them back and stick with paper and pencil.

Great news, but I'm still waiting on my invites.

"Good stuff! Yawn!" Yawn!

Looks like Vista Beta 1 was released a little bit earlier than I expected lol...

Lame... "Windows is a security nightmare." - Paul Thurrot

There are some official screenshots from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windowsvista/default.mspx Seriously, this thing looks awful. Four years for the new "advanced" Aero interface, and all we get are more "taskpanes" and "hyperlinks?" HUGELY disappointing. It's just Windows XP part two, with some hardware-accelerated translucency effects circa OS X in 2002

God, this thing really is turning out to be a "trainwreck," as Paul called it. "Games Explorer?" Four years and we get Games Explorer? Jesus.

Allchin is going around stating 512MB of RAM and 3Ghz. 512MB OF RAM AND 3GHZ TO DISPLAY WINDOWS ON THE SCREEN. What a bloated joke. This doesn't even have to do with OS X, which Apple makes faster with each release. Microsoft is deliberately bloating Windows to trick PC sales on consumers. There is absolutely no reason Longhorn needs 512MB of RAM and 3Ghz for its technologies. OS X Tiger has all of them already and it runs on my old 128MB of RAM iBook.

"The focus of Windows Vista Beta 1 is the fundamentals -- security, deployment, manageability, reliability and diagnostics" God, I hate Microsoft's vague, market-droid speak. Stuff like "Vista enables empowerment of individuals through personal freedom of computing." It's crappy monopoly-speak

"The focus of Windows Vista Beta 1 is the fundamentals -- security, deployment, manageability, reliability and diagnostics" God, I hate Microsoft's vague, market-droid speak. Stuff like "Vista enables empowerment of individuals through personal freedom of computing." It's crappy monopoly-speak

Seriously, these are only just a few screenshots. Let's wait till we see a little more about it, such as from the Winsupersite and see what else this thing has. If you read what Paul said: " the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2" For those that do not grasp the fundamentals of the English language, that means that Beta 1 will not include many features that WILL be in Beta 2.

After seeing the screenshots it basically looks like a dressed up Win 95!!! Plus, they are RIPPING APPLE off left and right, as usual: They are trying to imitate Apple with the lack of a constant menu bar, windows are missing "File, Edit, View, etc." At least Apple has it constantly at the top menu bar. Also, notice the flat coloured AC Power/Battery logo in the system tray. Visually, it's cluttered, confusing and inconsistent. And for the Micro$oft fanatics saying, "but this is just the beta, the new GUI will be added later." if you look at all previous Windows betas there hasn't be any huge difference between the beta and Gold gui's. 10 years since win 95 and "Vista" looks pretty much the same. No wonder Paul called longhorn a trainwreck, this is tantamount to XP service pack 3 and you know M$ will try to shove down your throat for $299 a pop!!! I want a truly modern, innovative and secure OS, thats why I use Apple OS X Tiger.

I wonder how much resources it takes to run the transparency effect and the "game explorer" (sarcasm)

Damn.. you people are impossible. This is a Developer Beta. Advanced UI, new theme and pretty much all the good stuff won't come until Beta 2. This is pretty much a beta that has most of the plumbing built-in, i.e. an early look at the direction MS is going with integrated search, driver support etc..

"Plus, they are RIPPING APPLE off left and right" Wait, I don't get it. First you people are complaining that this Beta is not very good, when you only have seen a few screenshots, but at the same time, you are saying that they are ripping off Apple? Well, with this logic, then that means that what Apple has must not be very good. Because if they were truly ripping Apple off, then this wouldn't be the "trainwreck" that you Apple-fanatic-Steve-Jobs-lovers that you guys always say it is.

"10 years since win 95 and "Vista" looks pretty much the same. No wonder Paul called longhorn a trainwreck, this is tantamount to XP service pack 3 and you know M$ will try to shove down your throat for $299 a pop!!!" Hmm, does your precious OS X really look that much different over the years? Sure, you got some new gussied up dock, but the fundamentals are still the same. Same with Vista. Fundamentally, it is still the same. You can't expect 90+% of the world's computer users to suddenly have to adapt to a dramatically different way of doing things, do you? Of course not, and neither would the Apple mothership do the same. And the upgrade price for XP Prof is $185 over at Amazon, and $95 for XP Home. Hardly $299. And since you didn't need to upgrade for point releases over the same period, your cost is still less than Apple's pricing scheme. Remember that the corporate market wanted a more regular upgrade schedule (not having to shell out for an upgrade for your yearly point releases), since it is widely accepted that Windows XP is installed on the majority of corporate PC's. Not that this is news to most people, but it may be a little enlightening to your Macheads.

Any word on when the IE7 beta will go live and what the ID will be?

"...ripping Apple...?" Like transparency, window animation and shadows? You mean the stuff _THAT APPLE STOLE FROM DESKTOP X, WINDOW BLINDS AND WINDOW FX_???? Or the stuff Apple stole from Konfibulator (which stole them from Desktop X)? Or are you talking about folder encryption, fast user switching, memory protection, multitasking, Expose that Apple stole from MS? And let's not even start with the fact that iPod, Apple machine cases and even the kernel of OSX are _NOT_ created by Apple folks. Yes, it is amazing how "innovative" Apple people are. But to get facts through to these people they would have to be able to read and understand facts. And that's not gonna happen with RDF people. "Facts are stupid things" as Ronald Reagan once said. Might've been Mr Jobs as well...

"Wait, I don't get it. First you people are complaining that this Beta is not very good, when you only have seen a few screenshots, but at the same time, you are saying that they are ripping off Apple?" - If you take a look, a glance, at the screenshots it is very clear M$ is trying to imitate Apple with the lack of a constant menu bar, windows are missing "File, Edit, View, etc." Also, notice the flat coloured AC Power/Battery logo in the system tray. They are clearly ripping Apple, but, not doing a very good job of it, and that is why visually, it's cluttered, confusing and inconsistent. OS X is Not cluttered, confusing or inconsistent. "then this wouldn't be the "trainwreck" that you Apple-fanatic-Steve-Jobs-lovers that you guys always say it is." - Well, Paul Thurott said, "Longhorn is a trainwreck", so you just call him an "Apple-fanatic-Steve-Jobs-Lover"!!!! HAHAHAAA!!!

regardless of who is copying who, I am using all the technology that is in this beta Now, with Mac OSX Tiger. I sound like a mac Lover, but I come from a windows upbringing and only switched to Mac since Panther 10.3. I may switch back, but I see nothing new or better implemented in this first beta. So give Apple some respect at least they have given people some enjoyment of using a computer. Im not windows bashing, its just my opinion and more importantly its our personal preference to what we want to use.

it's really sad the way the new Vista screenshot shows the start menu with a plastic highlight running across it, DIRECTLY RIPPED FROM THE PLASTIC HIGHLIGHT RUNNING ACROSS OS X'S MENU BAR the start menu is a complete rip-off of the Apple menu, but moved to the bottom of the screen. and microsoft thinks they have you fooled

See those search fields in the Start menu, where you type a few characters and get filtered results with each new character? TOTAL Apple rip-off. Apple innovated this in iTunes and decided to add it to the whole system in Spotlight. Then Microsoft decided to add it in Windows after hearing what Apple was doing.

Actually Microsoft was first to add in advanced search technology, following Microsoft, Apple and Google deceided they should invest in it also.

More rip-offs: My in "my documents" dropped, now its just "documents" just like OS X!!! The magnifying glass icon on the search bar is exactly the same as OS X's Finder, except the handle is tilted to the left plus the colors are reversed!!! The Picture folder looks like a bad copy of iPhoto, and now Star ratings of photos!!! Just like iPhoto!!! Plus, I still have not seen a single screenshot of those transparent title bars when two or more windows are maximized (which is how 99% of all windows are used in Windoze) It just looks like something an uninspired 1st year design student would create. "Longhorn, (Vista), is a trainwreck." - Paul Thurrot

Forget about the plastic or placement of buttons. Those are just looks, and are as stupid as saying that both Windows and Mac OS X both use white backgrounds for input fields. What is more interesting is the technology behind the scene; the engines that power them. Make them tick and do their work. And here is where the true copying takes place. From security measures to hardware accelerated graphics. Uniform presentation layer across devises to native object oriented API. The fun stuff is that Mac OS X got it right from the start; the API:s the developers use are the same now in 2005 as in 2001, even though the actual workings have changed quite allot with for example hardware accelerated rendering of text and shapes. I see Microsoft building very much the same foundation with the WinFX API, it is a foundation and we will not see all that it can deliver with Vista. Add another five years and we might see if it will pay of. And a last question; Windows 2000 was called Windows NT 5.0 internally, and Windows XP was called NT 5.1 internally. Is Vista bumped to full NT 6.0, or still in the 5.x range or NT dropped all together?

"Like transparency, window animation and shadows? You mean the stuff _THAT APPLE STOLE FROM DESKTOP X, WINDOW BLINDS AND WINDOW FX_???? Or the stuff Apple stole from Konfibulator (which stole them from Desktop X)? Or are you talking about folder encryption, fast user switching, memory protection, multitasking, Expose that Apple stole from MS? And let's not even start with the fact that iPod, Apple machine cases and even the kernel of OSX are _NOT_ created by Apple folks. Yes, it is amazing how "innovative" Apple people are. But to get facts through to these people they would have to be able to read and understand facts. And that's not gonna happen with RDF people...." Haha! That was a funny post! Next time do some research before you post.. ok?

IE 7 Beta 1 is up on the MS site but it appears to only be available to developers with MSDN subscriptions.... I thought it was supposed to be a public beta?

Man, this is amateur night tonight. It has been said over and over again that the Beta 1 is NOT public. That is Beta 2. And you people are really grasping at minute details to say that MS is ripping off Apple. I mean, what next, it has a pointer that you move around with a mouse, so that means that they are ripping off Apple? "See those search fields in the Start menu, where you type a few characters and get filtered results with each new character?" What rock have you been living under? This type of thing has been available in MANY places for a long time now (and not just in PC software). I've seen that feature in some vintage software in the 90's!

It's amazing the amount of Mac fanboys that post on this site...

I like the quote about stars for rating pictures. That Photos screen looks very similar to Microsoft's own Digital Image Library! And yes, DIL has stars too. As does Windows Media Player. Some of you people are really picking at details? "Look at the magnify glass, it's just like OSX!" It's a damn magnify glass! Get a life you Apple fanboys.

Looks like the forward/backward arrows in explorer are smaller, they look like safari's now. The worst part about this whole thing is that its gonna get rave reviews only because XP sucks, and these people have never used a Mac.

As early as this may be, and the Micro$oft fanatics are already screaming "BETA2!" - HAHAAHAHA!!! Funniest thing I've read today!

">>my mac crashed. Please pack up any computers that you use. Send them back and stick with paper and pencil. " If he's a Mac OS Classic user, I would believe it. That OS was NOT stable. "After seeing the screenshots it basically looks like a dressed up Win 95!!!" What, are you expecting a majorly different interface? Let me ask you this... Does Mac OS still have a menubar at the top? There's a reason some things stay the way they do. People get nervous when major changes happen :\. "They are trying to imitate Apple with the lack of a constant menu bar" What? "Also, notice the flat coloured AC Power/Battery logo in the system tray." You know, it is a beta. They don't have all the icons probably done yet. I'm glad they're not wasting time on Icons and are working on the software instead. "My in "my documents" dropped, now its just "documents" just like OS X!!!" So? Microsoft announced they were dropping the "My" prefix in Vista on everything... "The worst part about this whole thing is that its gonna get rave reviews only because XP sucks, and these people have never used a Mac." I feel the same way about people using Mac OS 9 machines who think their piece of crap operating system has practically anything over XP. The older Mac OS Classics would have been prime targets for the cracker community had Apple actually been significant competition to Microsoft at the time.

"Super-modern operating system combining..." "world's most advanced operating system" Good job on repeating what you've read from Apple advertisments. Btw: "FileVault automatically encrypts and decrypts the contents of your home directory on the fly." We had encryption technology built in to Windows before you had FileVault :P.

I don think anyone is copying anyone here. This looks like a piece of s h i t. Nothings jobs or company would release and not even up to MS's standards of Windows 3.0 MS needs to pull out NT 4.0 and fix a few things or buy the rights to the BEOS (like DOS) and Slap a "MS Longoverdue" sticker it on it.

>>"Good stuff! Yawn!" > Yawn! Yawn!, Watch out for the censor! Someone thinks that they can change words around in your post or delete your comments can control what you and others think.

"This looks like a piece of s h i t." LOL

We had encryption technology built in to Windows before you had FileVault :P. Who is "we" Paul? Microsoft? Windows? or are you stating that your on the Microsoft payroll? Are you going to censor this as well? Yawn!

Why is Bill Gates so successful? He targets the developer who in turns targets the consumer. Apple targets the consumer who they hope will then persuade the developer. Guess who's business model is winning out? Face it, Macs are only for web developers and audio/video specialists. To get any other real work done you have to stick with a PC. Example: I need to access our corporate database and get some real database. Whoops, I forgot Crystal Reports and other Reporting software are PC only. How about doing some accounting? Peachtree, Great Plains, Quickbooks? Whoops, I forgot, those are PC only too. Great, I can use my "cool" Mac to e-mail grandma my baby pics plus I can "rock out" with Itunes and my Ipod like that guy in the Ipod silhouette adds. Yeah, that guy is really cool and if I listen to my iPod enough, I will be able to dance like him too. Why is Bill Gates so successful? He targets the developer who in turns targets the consumer. Apple targets the consumer who they hope will then target the developer. Guess who's business model is winning out?

>> If you read what Paul said: " the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2" Thats just a few months after Apple releases its next OS version. Paul is "we" you and a blad headed mouse in your pocket?

>I >need to access our corporate database and get some real database. Whoops, I forgot Crystal Reports and other Reporting software are PC only. You work for a toy company! A real database. Oracle SQL is real. You know, the DB most companies use. Back to work, the restrooms needs paper and your the man of the toy company cans. You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter.

"Paul? Microsoft? Windows?" "We had encryption technology built in to Windows before you had FileVault :P." Obviously I was talking about Windows users. Windows XP Pro came with encryption :P. Mac users had to wait for Panther to get it built-in. It's interesting how "the super-modern" OS that is Mac OS X didn't have that to begin with... "You work for a toy company! A real database. Oracle SQL is real. You know, the DB most companies use." He wasn't talking about servers you clod. He was talking about clients (clients use Crystal Reports, not the server). Let me ask you something... How many MAC OS X servers are there running Oracle? Gee, I wonder if a lot of those servers are dedicated and would be using something else... "You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter." Or you could use Excel, and then create a link for Access to read the values in from (the best of both worlds - calculations in excel, but the data in Access to do queries).

Wow, what an uninspiring beta. MS is just too slow. Give a company billions in profit for producing crap, and what will you get? More crap.

We had encryption technology built in to Windows before you had FileVault :P. --- And look how well its working..

Hey Toy Company man. Learn to read. I did not say we use Microsoft SQL. Crystal Reports is for Oracle SQL databases dumbass. Get an education about computers before you post something.

"We had encryption technology built in to Windows before you had FileVault :P. --- And look how well its working.. " I don't even know how how to respond with something like that. Do you even know what encryption is?

"You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter." You know, I would THINK you would know better than to make a comment that blatantly stupid and obvious. I would much rather be able to insert my data in Excel or Access. Have you ever heard of Mail Merge? Do you know what a relational database is? Do you know the benefits of using a DB to store data? The great thing about queries can be seen in this example: Let's say I have 10,000 records. If they were printed out, I would have to spend like 15 minutes going through them trying to find the right sheet of paper, where as with SQL people can automate it! SELECT Name FROM ProductInfo WHERE CategoryCode = "A54". Or here's another one (it works with MySQL, not sure about MSSQL) CREATE TABLE ProductInfoBackup SELECT * FROM ProductInfo (it doesn't set the primary key or an index, but that's doable. this keeps things simple, right?)

>>You know, I would THINK you would know better than to make a comment that blatantly stupid and obvious. Stupid and obvious. Pleanty of product do the same thing and there cross platformed. Its obvious your stupid. Back to paper and pencil for you toy company toilet man.

"Surprisingly, Windows Vista Beta 1 is a speedy performer. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see statistics showing that it's already faster than XP on the same hardware. This is somewhat confusing to me, since early betas are generally not tuned for performance. Plus, Vista has an incredibly dense UI compared to UI. I'll be interested to see whether this changes over time." -From Paul's Article

Maybe this thing isn't a train wreck after all. -Paul Thurott

For those annoying macfanboys. What part of beta 1 not including end user features don't you get? Beta 1 was meant for developers so they can get a head start with combatibility. Microsoft and Paul have said this for many months now. If you want to see GUI, multimedia, or other features, you'll have to wait till beta 2 and PDC.

"Overall the look and feel of Windows Vista Beta 1 is pleasant and well-designed, with a vague Mac OS X-like look. The use of transparencies and translucencies, however, shows that Microsoft is still years behind Apple, experience-wise.... Windows Vista Beta 1 is full of rookie mistakes." - HAHAAHA! M$ a buncha amatuers!!! "The bad news is that a lot of the super futuristic stuff appears to be gone, and may be gone forever. The sort of bad news is that Windows Vista more closely resembles Windows XP than was the original plan. That is, there's a Start menu that looks a lot like the XP Start menu." - Just like I said, but got flamed by all the Micro$uck fanatics, Winblows Vista is tantamount to a new XP Visual style with details ripped from Apple OS X, they should call it Windows XP SP3 Kinda Aqua-ish!

"Stupid and obvious. Pleanty of product do the same thing and there cross platformed. Its obvious your stupid. Back to paper and pencil for you toy company toilet man." You mean the craptacular OpenOffice.org? Give me a break. Is this what you do when people prove you're wrong and you don't know what you're talking about? Resort to childish name calling? And you continue to blatantly stupid too. For instance: "Back to paper and pencil for you toy company toilet man.". I'm not the person who you said works there to begin with. And secondly, what kind of insult is "toilet man"? Are we in second grade now? Hah. In all seriousness, you said "You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter.", which is obvious, and it would be stupid for someone who knew better to do that, or even give other people advice to do that. You're still wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it :P.

"Pleanty of product do the same thing and there cross platformed. Its obvious your stupid." It stupid to say that and then not give examples, first off. A lot of us run Windows. Our options aren't as great as you claim they are, and Office is pretty damn good. I find it funny you didn't appear to refute anything the other person said. Guess you just needed to vent from your self-hatred due to the fact you constantly embarrass yourself here with your half-wit rants.

"Windows Vista Beta 1 is full of rookie mistakes." - HAHAAHA! M$ a buncha amatuers!!!" A company that's been making operating systems for 20 years is a bunch of rookies? Sure, there are probably some newbies at Microsoft, but chances are they're not the people that are doing core OS development. ""Surprisingly, Windows Vista Beta 1 is a speedy performer." You wouldn't expect speed performance from rookie coders.

"Just like I said, but got flamed by all the Micro$uck fanatics, Winblows Vista is tantamount to a new XP Visual style with details ripped from Apple OS X, they should call it Windows XP SP3 Kinda Aqua-ish!" If we're the "flamers" you're sure as hell the flaimbait. Most TROLLS are. : Btw, have you guys seen an Apple tree? Those things are TOTALLY copying off Apple... You should cut them down and burn them ;).

"flamed by all the Micro$uck fanatics, Winblows Vista is tantamount to a new XP Visual style with details ripped from Apple OS X, they should call it Windows XP SP3 Kinda Aqua-ish! " U flamed? Wat is this? the last time i checked, this was a windows site, not an apple site. It appears your fanatical advacation of apple made you miss that point.You obviously have no understanding of operating systems. Your assumption is entirely based on the GUI which is not the final version. You also base your assumption on the lack of end user features persumabely. As mentioned counless times, this will start to appear during PDC and beta 2.

"...there's a Start menu that looks a lot like the XP Start menu. - Just like I said" Really? I don't remember you ever saying that.

* Apple only switched to Intel because Windows is on Intel and Apple is trying to copy off Microsoft. * Spotlight was blantantly stolen from Linux. * No one uses encryption.

It's interesting to see how quickly after the beta was released that the Mac fans began posting their subjective crap. Personally, I think there's a certain amount fear involved; their precious (expensive) Tiger is apparently such a work of art and beauty, yet they're the first on the review sites to get a look at Vista. They then state the obvious that a UI that is (a) publicly acknowledged by MS that it does not represent the final product and (b) part of a beta that is over a year short of the final release to a UI that has gone through how many revisions? I guess if you're going to shell out over $100 every time Steve decides to release a point upgrade, stupidity shouldn't come as a surprise. Conveniently, Paul has provided a link to a dated review of "Whistler", which includes screenshots of XP while it was in beta. Contrary to what some guy posted earlier, the UI in betas can be seen to have changed *dramatically* if you compare these images with what XP looks like today. There is a lot of work to be done - I agree that the UI in this beta isn't fantastic, but who in their right mind expected it to be, after all we've been told about the UI being toned down in beta 1?

"Overall the look and feel of Windows Vista Beta 1 is pleasant and well-designed, with a vague Mac OS X-like look. The use of transparencies and translucencies, however, shows that Microsoft is still years behind Apple, experience-wise.... Windows Vista Beta 1 is full of rookie mistakes." - Paul Thurrott Viruses Infections, Spyware, Trojans, Adware. Welcome to Windows Vista.

>You mean the craptacular OpenOffice.org? No, nice try. Just go to show how wrong your are. Do you follow tech or just pretend to? >>And secondly, what kind of insult is "toilet man"? Are we in second grade now? Hah. It must be an insult to you as you repeat it. "Secondly" do you think this board is on a higher level than 2nd grade. For god sake it P.T. Wininformant 'nuff said. >>You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter." Give it a rest. Well all know user that should never been allowed near a machine. Have you ever supported Windows users? >>You're still wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it :P. Which makes this a blog. Not journalism, no reporting here, just the "P.T. inquirer". No need for comments because they are censored and edited. :J

"You're still wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it :P." You never said you weren't wrong, btw. "You mean the craptacular OpenOffice.org? No, nice try. Just go to show how wrong your are. Do you follow tech or just pretend to?" I've tried OpenOffice.org and it doesn't come near MS Office at some things. Do you follow tech or just read stuff on Apple/*nix forums and take the rhetoric as rock-solid facts? Last time I checked, it was still SLOWER than Office to load. And a lot of it's dialogs are rip-offs of the ones in Office. "do you think this board is on a higher level than 2nd grade." I expect people to act a bit older than 2nd graders. I see you would rather rationalize your behavior instead... By the way, why is Secondly in quotes. I'm not being a grammar nazi. I just don't understand what you're trying to do there. "Just go to show how wrong your are." Of course i'm wrong. Because you said so and you're always right ;] (at least in your head). Mind providing some facts? Heh, why do I even bother asking :P. "Which makes this a blog. Not journalism, no reporting here" Last time I checked the Comments section wasn't "the news" on this site. I suggest you look up journalism, or here, i'll do it for you: 2 a : writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine b : writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation c : writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest It sure matches [a], and could arguably match [c], but it only has to match one definition to be defined as that word. "'You know you could use pencil and paper to track yorur inventory. No need for access or a computer for that matter.' Give it a rest. Well all know user that should never been allowed near a machine. " Yeah, and those users generally don't read Win IT Pro. I guess you don't like being held accountable for stupid comments.

"No need for comments because they are censored and edited" Yeah... That's why you look like a dumbass. It couldn't possibly be because you are one. If you would like, we can start getting people to take screenshots constantly of this site. It won't prove much besides that "Yawn" comments are occasially binned, but whatever. If you read the forum agreement, they have a right to edit the comments however they see fit. This is THEIR server ya know (the one they pay for), and if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to stay here.

"Do you follow tech or just pretend to?" That's a good question to ask yourself before you shell out 500$ for the new Mac Cube. You can get superior technology in a PC for that price :). Even if you hate Windows, you can always kill it, install and repartition with Linux. You might have to pay the Microsoft tax, but you end up with a better machine. Size < Capability.

If you think my usage of "dumbass" is "2nd-grader", i will have to disagree with you. I believe that title is pretty much yours at the moment for your pathetic "toilet man" comment.

I am glad you had the balls to respond. Is that the best you can do? Yawn! - Have a good night. -Dumbass.

Hey, you know how people like having clip-art, photos, and such... Where are all those things in OpenOffice.org (it has some, but not a lot)? Microsoft's collection is MASSIVE.

It's not meant as an insult to you paul that I didn't include "b : writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation" when referring to this page as journalism. It is a news site, but there is a little bit a interpretation. It's a good site though. Keep up the good work :).

Anyone notice that Longhorn Server was released in all of this?? BTW the one who said that the "plastic" stripe on the taskbar is so similar to Tiger's plastic stripe, have you ever looked at a copy of XP MCE 2005? Ya, notice the taskbar and the title bars. 'Nuff said.

my Sinclair Spectrum kicks all of the afore mentioned in to touch. Power at the speed of tape..

For all you macsboy that say that MS steals every little details form macs. its like toyota putting a car with wheels. OH NO, ford has wheels, they most had stole it..... who cares about does crappy details. what is important is the back coding.

"You know, it is a beta. They don't have all the icons probably done yet." Yeah, they've only had five years. Give 'em a break.

"A real database. Oracle SQL is real. You know, the DB most companies use." WOW! Do you know anything? True, Oracle is a real database, so is DB2, and so is MS SQL. The DB that most companies use? I guess an Apple fanatics definition of "most" has to be a lot lower than that of a typical person's definition of the word. Most would imply nearly all. I don't have the figures, but I know that MS SQL has taken a very large percentage of the market over the last few years. SQL 2000 is scalable, reliable and secure. Next you'll be saying that most companies use OS X Server. Yeah right. And I love the double standard by these people here. First, you will decry anything that Paul says, UNLESS it goes along with your thinking, then you will actually use his arguments to prove your point. Such as using this trainwreck statement by Paul. Are these the same people that say this that also bash Paul at any instance when he says something even mildly negative about Apple? You can't have it both ways, folks. We know you hate MS, and we know you hate Paul, even though he is a Mac user. So, why do you come here?

"Microsoft is still years behind Apple... Windows Vista Beta 1 is full of rookie mistakes." - Paul Thurrott

"Are these the same people that say this that also bash Paul at any instance when he says something even mildly negative about Apple?" We love Paul when he's right, and hold his feet to the fire when he's wrong. Simple as that. Why is that so hard to understand? "Most would imply nearly all. " No. The definition of "most" is: 1. A large indefinite number: 2. The majority of the people; the masses As in, "Most computers are infected with a virus, spyware, adware or other infection because Most people use Windows".

OMG! I tried Vista, and they've changed "Documents and Settings" to a "Users" root folder, JUST LIKE IN OS X FROM FIVE YEARS AGO. Freaking lame, Microsoft. Get some original ideas

hell, go into the OS X-like "Users" folder and click into someone's account. What do you see? A "Public" folder, also exactly like in OS X. Steve Jobs was absolutely right. "Redmond, start your photocopiers" Looks like they took his advice

they also moved the Music and Pictures folders into the user directory and out of the Documents directory, just like OS X Basically, Microsoft has completely emulated the user folder structure of OS X. It's really sad. More "innovation" from Microsoft for fanbois to yell about.

"Is that the best you can do?" Lol, that is such a cop-out on your part. "Users root folder, JUST LIKE IN OS X." A user folder has been in UNIX for years. I personally applaud them renaming it. Typing out "Documents and settings" can get a bit annoying. "We love Paul when he's right, and hold his feet to the fire when he's wrong. Simple as that." Correction: If Paul says bad things about Microsoft or Good Things about Apple, you praise him. Otherwise you scream bloody murder :P. "I tried Vista" Are you a member of the MSDN or did you get an illegal copy? Or are you just lying...

Ever think that Microsoft *might* be trying to make it easier for users if they switch from Unix or the Crapple er apple?

"Ever think that Microsoft *might* be trying to make it easier for users if they switch from Unix or the Crapple er apple?" Nope, they would never do that. The Apple troll here seems to have some self-fufilling prophecy that Microsoft only copies off of Apple. If anything looks ANYTHING like something in Mac OS X, they always jump to the conculsion that it must have been copied. Tsk Tsk.

You know Apple was LATE to add built-in encryption, and stole the category view from XP... Well, Panther didn't have integrated ZIP until 10.3... Even Windows ME had that, and Windows ME is a travesty.

*Mac OS X, where Panther was.

"Vista Beta 1 has about 80 new features, but most of them revolve around the architecture (driver model, LUA, security, display, file system, remote management, system tracing/logging, new task schedulers, etc...). Believe me, they changes are not small at all! But while these things do end up stabilizing/securing the platform further, the features will only really be of particular interest to developers." -slashdot.org

"I tried Vista, and they've changed "Documents and Settings" to a "Users" root folder" and "A "Public" folder, also exactly like in OS X" No, more like Netware, from the 90's and before. I really doubt you "tried" Vista. More like you looked at some screenshots, and that was considered trying. Because if you really did try it out, you would have had a little bit more to say than just some lame comparison that really doesn't matter. My car has four wheels, and so does every other car, are they really copying things? It's also funny that if they didn't do some of these changes, you people would decry MS for not getting with the times, or how it is "ancient" or something like that. "Most would imply nearly all. No. The definition of "most" is: 1. A large indefinite number: 2. The majority of the people; the masses " How is that much different? You should actually do something called "reasearch" when you post comments, or have something that we call "knowledge." Nearly all is awfully close to a large indefinite number. Check the second entry: http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=most But id doesn't really matter, because when we talk about Mac marketshare, we are always dealing with small numbers, so the phrase "most people use" and "Mac" will never be uttered in the same sentence.

Seriously...what is all the hype about? Aside from some eye candy, what is REALLY being offered in "vista"? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1841067,00.asp

Windows Vista features that come from OS X: 1. Buttons that change color when you rollover them 2. Trash fills up with paper 3. Spotlight (as you mention) 4. The new folder hierarchy is identical to OS X -- Users, Shared (Public), Documents, Desktop, etc. 5. Smart Folders (Virtual Folders) -- Apple uses special icons to distinguish between the two. 6. Breadcrumb navigation is a weak version of OS X"s Column View. 7. Browser with tabs 8 Tabs keyboard shortcuts are identical to Safari 9. RSS button in browser 10. Shrink to Fit was in IE for Mac almost a decade ago. Glad to see Windows finally getting it. 11. Speech recognition was in the Mac OS over a decade ago and in OS X. 12. Sync manager 13. Parental controls 14. Security levels for account 15. Aero (But Quartz Extreme doesn't have the same huge requirements as Aero) It's amazing that a company that makes billions in profit every single quarter can't compete with a relatively small company like Apple. And OS X will be updated again right at the time Vista will supposedly ship.

Has everyone read that console gaming has grown by 26% in the first half of 2005 while PC gaming has lost 3%? PC gaming has been losing revenue every single year since 1998. The must-have games are on the console, not the PC0. Even Microsoft has a list of console-only games that won't be on the PC. The best selling games are all on the console.

I think Windows Vista looks like a weak impersonation of OS X. --nabegrave

Is Windows finally going to have any font management at all?

Most of Beta 1 is under the hood. Hey paul, have you looked in any of the DLLs with depends.exe (or exescope.exe) and saw anything interesting in them? (e.g. new APIs) Also, does anyone know if the .NET Framework 2.0 will have DirectShow support or some sort of audio/music built-in? "It's amazing that a company that makes billions in profit every single quarter can't compete with a relatively small company like Apple." They've been competing with Apple for years and crushing them. "Shrink to Fit was in IE for Mac almost a decade ago. Glad to see Windows finally getting it. " We've already had that in non-vista versions of IE. Overall, your list of "Windows Vista features that come from OS X" seems to be stuff you gathered from screenshots. That's real professional on your part ;).

Why do all the Mac coments seem to be at the same time? If you're trying to give off the impression you're more than one person, you're not very good at it.

"I think Windows Vista looks like a weak impersonation of OS X. --nabegrave" Who is nabegrave and why should anyone care what they say? Especially when they make comments like that, which make them appear to be brainless Apple drones. No menu at top of screen, no "Finder", no "Dashboard" or "Dock" (with annoying animations), and last time I checked, the only simularites between the file viewing windows in Mac OS X and Windows Vista is that they look somewhat similar, and somewhat not similar (they're not using colored circles, for instance).

"Overall, your list of "Windows Vista features that come from OS X" seems to be stuff you gathered from screenshots." No, I read Paul's review of Vista and the majority of the new features that Paul touts are already on OS X, and I listed them. "No menu at top of screen" Yeah, where IS the menu bar in Vista? It's missing from Paul's screen shots. "no "Finder", no "Dashboard" or "Dock"" Which are just three reasons Vista doesn't compete with Tiger, and it will have to compete with Leopard when/if Vista ships. Where is Vista's Exposé? Exposé is, by far, the best way to switch between documents. Compare that to the task bar's method of having task buttons that are truncated (Adobe..., Adobe..., Adobe...) and in a different order every time I use my computer, so I can't obtain muscle memory. I hunt for my task buttons!

>>"Shrink to Fit was in IE for Mac almost a decade ago. Glad to see Windows finally getting it. " >>We've already had that in non-vista versions of IE. So why does Paul Thurrott highlight this as a new feature in Vista?

"So why does Paul Thurrott highlight this as a new feature in Vista?" I don't know. You'll have to send him an email and ask him. I am almost positive it's in IE. Maybe we're not on the same page :S. "no "Finder", no "Dashboard" or "Dock"" I don't need Finder, I don't really want Dashboard all that much (what's the point), and the Dock sounds kinda crappy. I'm happy with what I have thanks. And all the "features" in the world probably won't change that. You can talk about "features" all you want. I'm still happy with what I have and plan on getting Vista. "Yeah, where IS the menu bar in Vista? It's missing from Paul's screen shots." The taskbar/startmenu are at the bottom still.

Mac OS X is like a one of those cars with blue lights that shine on the street. Hell, let's give it racing stripes too. You can take it to starbucks with you and use your Apple laptop there so you can feel Elite. And everyone knows how cool those blue lights are, and paying 5$ for coffee when 2$ coffee tastes better...

"They've been competing with Apple for years and crushing them." if you could run os x on a dell, then it would be a different story.. wait 12 months.. and see what it's like to participate in a competitive market.. (Translation: Sell your MS stock) "I don't need Finder" Since you have a Spotlight ripoff? Well, I agree.. until then the Finder ripoff will tide you over.. it's called "Explorer"... Ahh the magic of the Thesaurus... "and the Dock sounds kinda crappy" It's a place to put aliases, and organize open apps/documents.. it's actually pretty damn useful.. and predictably, can be switch to 'hide' mode, so it's off the screen when you take your mouse off it. Also not too surprising, it can be put on the bottom or sides of the screen... See all those "Shortcuts" on your "(Windows Eq. of Desktop)"? Those would go in the Dock. Less clutter.

"The taskbar/startmenu are at the bottom still." But what about "File, Edit, View, etc.?" I can't see them anywhere. One thing that bothers me about Windows in general, and this new beta in particular, is that everything is huge, and it just keeps getting bigger with every release. Apple is guilty of this in a few places, but moving a slider will bring everything down to proper 32x32 size in one sweep. I really hope that Microsoft hasn't eliminated menus and expects users to make their way by clicking a bunch of big, cartoony icons. It used to be that the only products where everything was ridiculously oversized were toys for small children, but now apparently interfaces for full-grown people are following the same trend. Microsoft is the worst in this regard, but everybody else is guilty, too.

"if you could run os x on a dell, then it would be a different story.. wait 12 months.. and see what it's like to participate in a competitive market.. (Translation: Sell your MS stock)" Your god, ie, Steve Jobs, never said anything about licensing the Mac software to run on other boxes beside Apples own equipment. They are just switching to a new processor. Geez, you think you'd be smarter than that. Oh, yeah, that's right, people only *think* they are smarter because they use a Mac, and may or may not be smarter, they are just "thinking different." Remember that Apple tried this many years ago, and backpedaled. And we won't be selling stock in MS just simply because they have some revived competition with Apple. They already own that market. MS has been going after other markets, such as a larger share of the server market instead.

InfoWorld: "Do you know what operating system is used to run your refrigerator? Did you even know that it had one? Well of course it does but who cares and some day the same may be said of your PCs OS and my gosh Internet browser as well." Only here...

never said anything about licensing the Mac software to run on other boxes beside Apples own equipment --- you're such a friggin' idiot.. of course Apple won't be licensing the OS.. if they did, MS might pull Office.. Instead Apple sells machines that can boot Windows or Mac.. (more compelling) AND by the time those Macs are out, Apple will have given the open source community plenty of time to get a WINE version ready for the Mac... And how long before they figure out a way to get those x86 versions of OS X running on a Dell. Please. You're right.. MS looks really good with no real competitors..(well actually they don't... but they have nice marketshare)...come back in 12 months..

"Your god, ie, Steve Jobs, never said anything about licensing the Mac software to run on other boxes beside Apples own equipment. They are just switching to a new processor. Geez, you think you'd be smarter than that. Oh, yeah, that's right, people only *think* they are smarter because they use a Mac, and may or may not be smarter, they are just "thinking different." Remember that Apple tried this many years ago, and backpedaled." I have no doubt that Apple will license OS X to Dell, HP, Gateway. What is happening is Apple is getting the developers to port their applications to X86 OS X right now, for Mac users. Releasing OS X to Dell today would be pointless because there are no X86 OS X applications. But in two years, there will be a ton of them, and they will all run on any OS X PCs. You have to know something about OS X X86 to understand this. The only thing that stops you from running OS X X86 on any PC is in the boot cycle that checks for the Mac's ROM. All the OS X X86 applications, however, do not check for that ROM. They don't care. So all Apple has to do is wait till there is a good selection of software for X86 and then release OS X X86 to Dell/Gateway/HP that doesn't look for that ROM during the boot sequence (or have those PCs ship with the ROM). I think a $499 Dell with OS X Leopard and iLife 2007 would sell very well. And I think Apple would make more profit from that than they do from Mac mini sales.

"if they did, MS might pull Office.." I think Microsoft would rather sell Office to all those Dell OS X users for the profit, and so the DoJ doesn't file another anti-trust suite against them and breaks them into three companies. But how many copies of Office has Microsoft sold on the Mac? Remember when Microsoft was complaining about the sales figures of OS X for OS X? They sold less than a million in a year, if I remember correctly. There are 20-30 million Mac users out there. I think Apple's iWork will be plenty for most people who buy $499-$799 Dells. Obviously, if Office isn't out for OS X PCs and you NEED 100% Office compatibility (which Office for the Mac doesn't even have with the WIndows version, BTW), then you'd be forced to buy a Windows PC. But iWork opens and saves .DOC files pretty darn well.

Microsoft Office, for the time being, is crucial to the viability of the Macintosh platform. Of course, there are many compatible solutions, but they are not 100% compatible, and a few people, mainly in the business world, do use all of those obscure Office features and need 100% compatibility. Even if Office isn't necessary, people think it is, so if the Mac lost Office, they would take a lot of ridicule for it. Then again, many Windows users I know aren't even aware that MS Office is available for the Mac OS. I doubt that Apple will try Mac clones again, either. Yes, it would be successful from a business perspective, but Apple maintains much of the smoothness of the Mac experience by making the computers themselves, eliminating potential compatibility problems. Yes, the same market for third party hardware and software exists in the Mac world, but having the actual computer and OS made by the same people is a large part of the "it just works" idea that people like Apple for. Clones were a good idea 10 years ago, and they brought cheaper and more powerful Macs to everyone, but Steve Jobs didn't like the idea and probably hasn't changed his opinion on the matter since 1997.

Your points about Office are contradicted by sales of Office for the Mac and the fact that Office for Mac isn't 100% compatible with Office for Windows. In regards to clones, we aren't talking about Mac clones. Mac clones were Macs. Dell doesn't sell Macs. Dell sells PCs. So comparing Mac clones from Power Computing to OS X running on Dells/Gateway/HP is flawed. Mac clones didn't work. OS X on Dell/Gateway/HP is a different thing, and I have no doubt Steve Jobs would do that. iPod and iTunes is on PC, right? Macs are now switching to X86 processors, right? At this point, how can you say what Jobs will or will not do?

If Office for Mac and Office for Windows aren't 100% compatible, then they are very close. Apparently, a lot of Mac people out there are making do with AppleWorks or something else, but a lot of Windows people are making do with Works, too. Some people want/need productivity software with the features that Office has, and no matter how many or how few people use it, it's important that it exist. For example, Apple has been trying to improve its market share in business environments, a place where it has historically been weak. Would any business seriously consider switching over to a Macintosh environment if Office wasn't available for it? Most likely not. A computer running the Mac OS that isn't made by Apple is a Mac clone. If Apple licensed the Mac ROM and OS to Dell or HP, they would be doing the same thing that they did in the late 1990s. The processor architecture would be different, but the concept is exactly the same. Mac clones did work, in fact. The clone companies didn't go out of business; Steve Jobs killed the clone program because it ran against his vision of what the Mac platform was supposed to be. Before he killed the clones, Power Computing, Umax, Motorola, Radius, etc. were offering Mac-compatible hardware that was cheaper and more powerful than Apple's. This is one of the reasons why I think Steve Jobs will not re-establish the clone program with Dell etc. It would make Apple work a lot harder to stay competitive, and although it would undoubtedly grow the market share of the Mac OS, it would endanger Apple's computers, and Apple will not sacrifice its hardware business. Mainly out of principle: Steve Jobs is very passionate about what he thinks a computer should be, and as such, he wants to stay in a position where he can offer the "whole widget" to the public. Also, let's not forget that Macintosh computers account for 65% of Apple's profit. iPods may have people forgetting this, but Apple is still first and foremost a computer manufacturer.

Better yet, why do they care? Why would a PC user care if Apple put OS X on the PC? I would think they would like that. More choice. And Apple doesn't control everything on Macs. That's just a BS excuse for Windows being a pile of crap. ATI creates the driver for their video cards on the Mac. HP creates the driver for their printers, along with Epson, Canon, etc. Scanner drivers are created by the developer. Pro video cards like Decklink have drivers created by the developer. The real reason Macs work is because Apple designed their OS in a way that doesn't have DLLs writing over each other and causing DLL hell, nor does OS X have IRQs that can conflict, nor does OS X have spyware/adware/viruses. The reason is because OS X is designed better than Windows and Microsoft is screwed because in order for them to fix Windows, they will have to break compatibility with legacy hardware and software. They aren't going to do that. So Windows Vista will have all the same problems as Windows XP.

I agree. And I also think licensing the Mac OS again would probably be a smashing success. I just don't think it's going to happen. If Microsoft does break all of its legacy support in Windows, Windows users probably would get upset, seeing as they have gotten used to gratuitous legacy support (for example, you can even run Windows 1.0 from 20 years ago on a brand-new PC). They promised the world for Windows Vista, but now it's been whittled down to be Windows XP with better searching, a new appearance theme, and a handful of moderately useful additions to the interface.

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO!

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE...

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE...

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE...

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE...

WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE...

How is that a slip? They always said the second half of 2006. It's like when Apple says the first half of 2005 for Tiger and they ship a bug-riddled OS and people don't get 10.4.2 until summer.

Hey, when is that 3 Ghz G5 coming? ROTFL!

I don't know. Go ask IBM that. Macs are switching to Intel.

How is that a slip? They always said the second half of 2006. It's like when Apple says the first half of 2005 for Tiger and they ship a bug-riddled OS and people don't get 10.4.2 until summer. ---- Talk about weak.. an April release... lmfao..but for the purposes of this 'dig' you claim Tiger was buggy as hell

10.4.2 had over 80 bug fixes by itself. All you have to do is go read the docs for 10.4.1 and 10.4.2 to know 10.4 wasn't finished and was rushed out the door. But I ask again, how is Holiday 2006 a slip from second half 2006? Is November/December not in the second half of 2006? Huh? Huh?

"ut I ask again, how is Holiday 2006 a slip from second half 2006? Is November/December not in the second half of 2006?" Second half of 2006 suggests September or October. Not way at the end of November. Vista will be delayed to 2007. GUARANTEED. The only thing funnier are the lame responses you losers gave to the news. "Tiger was bug-riddled! Yeah, that's it! Never mind that XP SP3 is already in the works to fix my crappy OS that can't even do Sleep mode and requires spyware, firewall, anti-virus, and registry cleaners running in the background!" ROFLMAO

You drooling M$ fanbois don't get it. You'll be using Apple computers next year to boot your Windows, you'll use OS X, and realize you've been five years behind in computing. Vista shipping in early 2007 means OS X Leopard is going to come out before Vista. Redmond, start your photocopiers. No wonder Microsoft is dying, their sales are going down, and Apple is skyrocketing. You guys may as well just go Mac now. It's the superior system in every way. It must suck to have to know that inside and feign this defense of the crappy Windows as you run in your admin accounts (snicker).

Read it and weep Micro$oft fanatics!!! The iPod Halo Effect confirmed by top Microsoft Executive Will Poole: "Apple on Windows radar Speaking to financial analysts here on Microsoft's Redmond campus, top PC Windows executive Will Poole listed three main obstacles facing the company as it tries to keep sales of the operating-system growing: The "good enough" problem in which people are relatively content with their existing version. The continued challenge posed by open-source software. And the "halo effect" in which sales of the Apple iPod are boosting sales of its personal computers. That halo effect isn't news to people following the trend, but it's notable to hear a Windows executive acknowledge it. "It’s enabling them to more effectively go after PC users and sell them future Apple products," Poole said." blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/005384.html The proof is in the pudding!!! The iPod Nation has spoken, you cannot resist the iPod phenomenon that is sweeping the nation!!!

I will say that a few years ago, people laughed at me when I said I had a Mac, and said stuff like "don't you have to use ClarisWorks all the time?" or something equally stupid. Now, these same people have bought iPods, and they say "Really? I've been thinking about getting a Mac. What's it like?" Seemingly unrelated, but having an iPod gives them firsthand experience with an Apple product. It takes away the fog that allows them to have misconceptions about the company's products. There's a lot to be optimistic about in the Macintosh community today, but that being said, let's not be rude to the Windows users, eh?

My V A G anti-virus will suck it in easy.

S e x o n l i n e

Is November/December not in the second half of 2006? Huh? Huh? --- Drop the George Kostanza act.. Yes it's a push back.. or else they would have said Q4. Saying 2nd Half implies that MS wanted to promise a Sept release.. But you already knew that..

2nd half of a year: anytime from July 1 to December 31 and implying nothing more.

Okay...is anyone else embarrassed that Windows Vista barely looks better than Mac OS X 10 from 2001? http://www.aresluna.org/guidebook/screenshots/macosx101 After five years, all Microsoft has come up with is a blur effect for titlebars? It looks awful.

No kidding, OS X from five years ago looks better than this black and translucent crap. Once again, Microsoft illustrates that Windows users are 100% content to be five years behind in everything. No matter. Microsoft is dying (revenues keep going down and analysts predict barely anybody will switch to Vista), and nobody cares.

"Windows Vista Beta is used more than Mac OS X. Now that is classic." Once again, all M$ fanbois have is "More people use Windows." Yeah, and Britney Spears sells more CDs than Mozart does. Besides, Apples are 15% of the world's computers according to the SPA. Barely 1% have tried out this crappy beta of Vista. Analysts have already said only about 30% will even be running VIsta by 2008. Meanwhile, next year's Macs will be able to boot Windows, so you all will be buying Powerbooks and iMacs, discover OS X, and never look back. Trust me, it will happen. I'm a former Windows devotee who bought a Mac mini this year and realized how incredibly far behind computing was being held back specifically because of MIcrosoft. It's scary that such a monopoly can actually affect history by holding back technology for years.

All M$ has innovated in the past five years is the idea of an "anti-spyware" program sucking up resources in your "system tray" along with a firewall, anti-virus, registry cleaner, etc. OS X: Zero viruses, zero spyware, 15% of the world's computers.

AHAHAHA...you've got to be kiddin me Vista has blurring in the titlebars? IT LOOKS AWFUL! check out the About dialog in the IE7 screenshot! This is what M$ is touting as innovation? Blurry titlebars? And all the Windoze-using Sim2-playing fanboys will pick it up and exclaim "WOWZ! SEE M$ IS INNOVATIVE LOLOL" ROFLMAO. no wonder Apple's sales are skyrocketing. it's a bad time to be a windoze user

I'm the troll who made Wininformant talkbacks popular. Before I started posting a few months ago, there were 3-4 comments per article. I started trolling every Windows user, posting and posting, causing the pages to stretch down vertically. This was before they added pagination, a direct result of all my posting. Then I got Slashdot to link to it. Then I got them to link to another story. In came a flood of users posting to the talkbacks. I'm the reason the talkbacks go for 5 to 6 pages now. You're welcome.

MacDailyNews starts the name calling already: "Microsoft's Windows 'Vista' promises similar features to Apple's already-shipping Mac OS X." Oh, really? I didn't realize there's a Tablet Mac already shipping (is there a Mac that you can carry around and use a pen with?). Ours is already shipping, don't need to wait for Vista. I didn't realize there's a Media Center Mac already shipping (is there a Mac with a TV tuner built in so you can do Tivo-like stuff?). Ours is already shipping, don't need to wait for Vista. I didn't realize that there's a Mac phone that integrates with the Mac OS already shipping (is there a Mac SmartPhone phone equivilent already shipping?). Ours is already shipping, no need to wait for Vista. I didn't realize that there's a Mac shipping that runs on Intel (there will be soon, yes, but I didn't realize it was shipping already!). I didn't realize that there's a Mac shipping that'll integrate with the Xbox. Ours is already shipping, no need to wait for Vista. I didn't realize that there's a Mac shipping that has integration with MSN Direct Watches. Ours is already shipping, no need to wait for Vista. Wow, where do I get a Mac that does all that?

"A computer running the Mac OS that isn't made by Apple is a Mac clone." But the context is all wrong. A company building a computer with Apple's specifications that uses a PowerPC processor and Apple's proprietary slots and ports is a Mac clone. Mac clones from the 90s were this. An X86 PC sold by Dell with OS X running on it is nothing like a Mac clone from the 90s. Dell doesn't need to use special parts that cost more money. Dell can sell the exact same hardware with Windows on it. Heck, Dell could sell it with two partitions and have both Windows and OS X on it. So comparing Mac clones from the 90s to Dell licensing OS X is still a flawed comparison. "Steve Jobs killed the clone program because it ran against his vision of what the Mac platform was supposed to be" No. That's wrong. Steve Jobs killed it because it was taking sales from Apple. The Mac clone companies were marketing to existing Mac users. The whole point was to gain market share. What happened is the total Mac market share stayed the same, but got divided between more than one company. "Mainly out of principle: Steve Jobs is very passionate about what he thinks a computer should be" And Steve is selling iPods to Windows users with a USB capable included, not FireWire, and Steve has switched processors to Intel processors...with BIOS instead of OpenFirmware (yuck). "The only thing funnier are the lame responses you losers gave to the news. "Tiger was bug-riddled! Yeah" The response was "Apple put Tiger out before it was finished to get it out on time". "No wonder Microsoft is dying, their sales are going down, and Apple is skyrocketing" Microsoft's sales have never declined. They have growth every single quarter. They make more profit in a single quarter than Apple makes in total revenue. "I didn't realize that there's a Mac..." Tablet - Mac users were using the Newton a decade before your tablet. I don't need a tablet, nor do I need a PDA that gets viruses. Media Center - the MacTV so

"I didn't realize that there's a Mac..." Tablet - Mac users were using the Newton a decade before your tablet. I don't need a tablet, nor do I need a PDA that gets viruses. Media Center - the MacTV sold over a decade ago, from Apple. It came with a TV tuner and PiP, etc. Glad to see you guys catching up, again. Phone - phones have been syncing with Macs for years. What do you think iSync is for? Intel - I'd rather be running on AMD, personally. XBox - I noticed you didn't say PSP. LOL! MSN - are you kidding? MSN is still losing money for Microsoft. Where do I get a Mac that gets adware, spyware, and viruses?

"I'm the troll who made Wininformant talkbacks popular. Before I started posting a few months ago, there were 3-4 comments per article. I started trolling every Windows user, posting and posting, causing the pages to stretch down vertically. This was before they added pagination, a direct result of all my posting. Then I got Slashdot to link to it. Then I got them to link to another story. In came a flood of users posting to the talkbacks. I'm the reason the talkbacks go for 5 to 6 pages now. You're welcome. " At least you're finally admiting you're a troll, but you're hardly doing anyone here a favor. If you consider people wasting portions of their life on this forum talking about stupid stuff a favor, well... heh... yeah... You can trash windows all you want, but as long it does what I want it to do, i'll be sticking with it. In order for me to change to Mac OS X (or linux, which is more likely at this moment because I have Virtual PC now :]. I would use Bochs, but editing text configs to do stuff is so early 1990s and there's no excuse if the program runs in GUI mode for it's settings to have to be edited in a text file... well, there's lazyness actually, but w/e) you guys are gonna have to do a much better Job pushing it's benefits.

And please stop with the Apple PR. Every time you say Apple's OS is modern or the best OS out there, I feel like your vomiting on me because you've been eating too many rotten apples (sort of). Longhorn had the "virtual folder" thing before Apple had spotlight. Apple implemented it first in a PUBLIC release though, i'll give them that much. Mac OS X didn't have integrated encryption or zipping until Mac OS X Panther (10.3), which is some ways is unacceptable, especially for a "modern" OS. Apple apparently "borrowed" the control panelish thing from WinXP too. Btw, I still don't get what you guys are talking about when you say Luna ripped off Aqua. They look almost nothing alike. You can scream copy-cat all you want, but it's gonna take for than that to convince people they should abandon an operating system they've invested years worth of time in. To me, the primary benefit of Windows is that a lot of people use it, in comparison to other OSes, for their desktops. Once you can say that about Mac OS X, i'll be interested.

In other words, if Vista tanks entirely and people start abandoning Microsoft in droves, you can almost bet i'll consider buying a Macintel machine. You gotta make that happen first :P.

"Tablet - Mac users were using the Newton a decade before your tablet. I don't need a tablet, nor do I need a PDA that gets viruses." I agree. The last thing we need is PDAs with viruses. "Media Center - the MacTV sold over a decade ago, from Apple. It came with a TV tuner and PiP, etc. Glad to see you guys catching up, again." Those really didn't catch on. Maybe they were too much ahead of their time, but maybe nobody was interested and they cost too much... "Phone - phones have been syncing with Macs for years. What do you think iSync is for?" I don't know what iSync is. I'm not an Apple user. "Intel - I'd rather be running on AMD, personally." I guess it's kind of a shame Apple went with intel then. Hopefully they'll be able to use AMD too sometime and haven't gotten themselves into Intel's vicegrips. "MSN - are you kidding? MSN is still losing money for Microsoft." I don't get the point of MSN, besides the MSN Messenger. They have a semi-nice news page and stuff, but I prefer GMail and Google News over what MSN offers. "Where do I get a Mac that gets adware, spyware, and viruses? " You don't, for now.

"WINDOWS VISTA SLIPS TO 2006 HOLIDAY SEASON http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4125 ROFLMAO! A SLIP TO 2007 IS INEVITABLE... " Ya know, you only had to post it once :P. Flooding the article's comment section doesn't make people more likely to read it. They were probably going to see it even if you only posted it once. You're just re-enforcing people's opinions here that you're childish and a troll.

"You'll be using Apple computers next year to boot your Windows, you'll use OS X, and realize you've been five years behind in computing." -------------------------------------------------- "If everyone stopped buying PCs or suddenly everyone bought macs or started using Linux then we would see this, but get real, when was the last time you saw a computer running OS X or Linux at Sears, Walmart, Target or any other store? BestBuy doesnt even carry Mac software, but they carry Linux."

I'll use your Mac OS X Leopard -> POSSIBLY <- if Microsoft continues to release Virtual PC for the Mac. Since you would already be running on x86 architecture, the emulation would probably be pretty fast. My only question then, is how memory memory will the Leopard machines be released with. I want to be able to run Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X at the same time, with enough memory left to run a server that eats up 500 MB too. Come on Apple :P.

Why I hate Apple Next in our series will be our piece on the Apple Corporation in general. Apple is generally considered very innovative and user friendly. And they are. They innovated the first PC user interface, for the most part. And that interface was very user friendly. But what Apple left out was the usefulness. While Unix computers were involved in UUCP and early popular TCP/IP networking, Apple computers were doing something called hyper cards or something. While powerful unix editors such as VI and EMACS were being perfected, Apple had, er, well, I don't know what they had until Microsoft came out with Word, but I'm sure they must have had something, and I'm sure it was useable. When Microsoft started catching on to the whole Internet thing, providing crude and barely functional TCP/IP networking, Apple provided even cruder and even less functional networking capability. In fact, by the time Apple caught on firmly to the whole networking thing, they were already an also-ran. This is when they became obsessed with lawsuits and this silly, Albert Einstein, pot-smoking, "different" image that was supposed to somehow elevate them above functional computer systems. Move ahead a few dull years, and we come to Mac OSX. Now Apple decides, understandabley, to scrap their, useless, Mac OS in favor of something that works and that is free and that they can integrate with a bunch of pretty icons and sell for lots of money. This was a good thing for Apple users who were already used to spending lots of money on pretty icons but weren't used to an OS that actually did anything. Now Apple fanatics had an OS with pretty icons and a functional operating system. But in the spirit of previous Apple OSs, Apple locked this thing up and prevented developers from easily developing Apple applications. They also neglected to contribute back to the community from which they took (the open source community) and refused to contribute their own software (itunes, the

I hear from folks that OSX is very pretty and has lots of nice wallpapers. I've seen it. Yes, it's very shiny and sparkling. Folks claim it's very stable, and I have to agree; FreeBSD has always been a very solid OS. But is Apple now much different than M$? They take other peoples technology and re-package it. It doesn't work very well, but it's "more stable" than the previous version. It's locked up like a drum, but should somehow magically be comatible with stuff that shows up a year or two from now. Apple/Mac is no better than Microsoft, they just smoke more pot and spend more on fancy billboards on the 101.

http://apple.whipnet.net/ Pretty much says it all

"I'll use your Mac OS X Leopard -> POSSIBLY <- if Microsoft continues to release Virtual PC for the Mac. Since you would already be running on x86 architecture, the emulation would probably be pretty fast." You won't need it. Apple is switching to Intel processors and they have confirmed that you can boot Windows. So just create a partition and load the real thing. "They take other peoples technology and re-package it." OS X isn't FreeBSD. It's FreeBSD and Mach. Do you REALLY want to start an "Apple innovations" thread? You would lose badly if you want to compare it to Microsoft's innovations. You do know that to this day, Microsoft is licensing TrueType font technology from Apple, right? We can start with that. LOL!

"http://apple.whipnet.net/ Pretty much says it all" And if it were 1995, it would be more accurate than it is today. It would be like me talking about Windows ME and then applying it to Windows XP SP2.

--"Do you REALLY want to start an "Apple innovations" thread? You would lose badly if you want to compare it to Microsoft's innovations. "-- Yes, that is true. If you only compare the consumer side. Compare the developer side, and you get another image. Apple is more enduser oriented, whereas Micosoft is more developer oriented. --"Phone - phones have been syncing with Macs for years. What do you think iSync is for?"-- THAT really is funny. LOL What do you think Active Sync is for?

"What do you think Active Sync is for?" I didn't imply that Windows didn't work with phones, did I? If you are going to bash the Mac or OS X, you should have a LITTLE bit of knowledge or experience with it. I own PCs, so I am fully aware of what Windows is like.

"I own PCs, so I am fully aware of what Windows is like." Windows 98, or Windows XP? In some ways, they're two very different beasts. You'll find Windows can be fine as long as you're behind a firewall of some sort, and you avoid stuff like MSIE. It's also a good idea to keep ALL your software up-to-date, and that includes Firefox and Thunderbird. Also, I would recommend XChat over mIRC if you use IRC a lot. Here's the free windows build .

"Compare the developer side, and you get another image." The image you get is Microsoft creating proprietary developer tools to keep people dependent on Windows, or tweaking standards technology so that it's proprietary, ala RSS (recent example), HTML, they don't even support CSS, Java (sued for that one).

""Compare the developer side, and you get another image." What do you know about Apple's developer innovations? Obviously, not much.

"I didn't realize there's a Tablet Mac already shipping (is there a Mac that you can carry around and use a pen with?). Ours is already shipping, don't need to wait for Vista." Ahahahaha...the Tablet PC has had dismal sales, much to Bill Gates' embarrassment. Paul Thurrott wrote about this last month. Apple doesn't have a Tablet Mac because their iPod outsells those things a million to one. All the rest of your stuff like "integration with the X-Box" was just lame. The X-Box has a measly 15% console market share anyway and is literally a PC-in-a-box with no monitor or keyboard.

"Longhorn had the "virtual folder" thing before Apple had spotlight." Apple had virtual lists long before Longhorn--in iTunes. Smart Playlists were the inspiration for Smart Folders, and the iTunes real-time search field is where Spotlight came from. Apple's patent is dated years before Microsoft's.

"You'll find Windows can be fine as long as you're behind a firewall of some sort, and you avoid stuff like MSIE." Don't need a firewall with OS X because the system doesn't keep any ports open on a default install. You can turn the firewall on if you want, but it's off by default because it's not needed. Microsoft built in a firewall because all those random ports they keep open got exploited. Microsoft put out anti-virus software because their OS still runs with admin privileges in the year 2005 (and all throughout 2006 as well!). Microsoft put out anti-spyware software because of all the security flaws in Windows and IE. Registry cleaners and other software exist to fix the very bad design cruft of Windows like having a "registry" and a Start menu of shortcuts that aren't really the program files. Come on, guys...the reason we Apple guys are laughing is because Longhorn was originally supposed to be this massive redesign to fix everything wrong with Windows. Now it's just Windows XP with some OS X Tiger features. I love all these Windows-centric magazines writing about the hardware-accelerated window effects like they're new. We saw it in OS X 10.2 three years ago. In other words, don't believe a word of the majority of the tech press, because they owe their living to the Microsoft monopoly and want to see it keep going. However, you can detect a change this year as Apple has been the media darling...so the winds are changing.

Registry cleaners! Oh man, I forgot to mention those. How could I forget registry cleaners?! Yeah, all of that stuff is still going to be needed in Vista because Vista is the same OS underneath the GUI.

Windows "Vista"? Since "Vista" means "View", does this mean we'll finally have "Windows with a View"?

"Compare the developer side, and you get another image." The image you get is Microsoft creating proprietary developer tools to keep people dependent on Windows, or tweaking standards technology so that it's proprietary, ala RSS (recent example), HTML, they don't even support CSS, Java (sued for that one). Your kidding right? Apple has one of the most propietary development model there is? Ya its based on UNIX but it's there locked down version. Everyone is always like Microsoft has media player built in please sue them, microsoft has IE builtin please sue them! They say it does not allow competitors to compete mmm APPLE-ITUNES-IPHOTO-SAFARI (ALL BUILTIN) How come nobody yells about them with these practices?? I will tell you becuase your 3% of the market share and the tiniest blip on the screen thats why always will be too hows this for propietary IPOD-ITUNES (NO EXCEPTION!) MMMM any other microsoft media device can play with tons of players including media player

I never use a registry cleaner (although I might consider it, considering what I just wrote below). If I uninstall a big program though, I do go in with regedit and generally have to remove keys the programs left there for some reason. Some programs on Windows are really annoying. For instance, PowerArchiver (the generally good program that it is), has this nice tendancy to associate itself with ZIP files (HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT). Well, when I fix it through PowerArchiver, the ZIP icon isn't set back right so ZIP files end up missing their icon. I think we should have stuck with INI files sometimes. Of course INI files are pretty crappy though (where's nesting? how do you do multi-line strings in them [besides converting CRLFs to \n which is not exactly desirable]). Guess XML files could be used, if there's nothing better... The registry wouldn't be so bad if people would just clean up after themselves and be a bit more careful.

Oh, almost forgot. The corrupt registry thing doesn't generally happen with XP. It can happen in rare instances though (e.g. stuff doesn't load right and then you do a remote registry connection with the bad system). The file handling in NT is safer than it was in 9x :).

"All the rest of your stuff like "integration with the X-Box" was just lame. The X-Box has a measly 15% console market share anyway and is literally a PC-in-a-box with no monitor or keyboard." Sounds like an over-priced cube that Apple's trying to push on people... You know what i'm talking about.

"You won't need it. Apple is switching to Intel processors and they have confirmed that you can boot Windows. So just create a partition and load the real thing." I prefer the Virtual PC / VMWare way of doing it over the partition thing. That way is safer, easier, and you can run two OSes at once. I've messed with partitioning before with PartitionMagic (a tool that lets you resize partitions in a non-damaging way) and although it worked, I would rather not do it again.

I'm on a battery if the power dies, but I still don't like the idea of doing something where if my computer died in the process, all my files would end up lost :\. And i'm not going to spend hours backing stuff up first, when I could just pay a little money to do something eaiser and arguably better (the two at once argument, and yeah, I know the guest OS is slower and degrades performance in some cases).

"Microsoft put out anti-virus software because their OS still runs with admin privileges in the year 2005 (and all throughout 2006 as well!)." That's fixable, but it's a pain to use "Run As..." all the time for all those programs that think they need or actually need admin privs. "Microsoft put out anti-spyware software because of all the security flaws in Windows and IE." Basically. If I recall, Microsoft didn't used to care much about the spyware either, until People got angry at them. Businesses scratching each other's backs. "Start menu of shortcuts that aren't really the program files." Doesn't Mac OS X have "Aliases"? What about "hard links" while we're at it? "Longhorn was originally supposed to be this massive redesign to fix everything wrong with Windows." You really expected that? That sounds like something a Windows zealot would say. "However, you can detect a change this year as Apple has been the media darling...so the winds are changing." Apple's iPod is doing well, as is iTMS. I haven't heard a lot of talk on the news about their computers though.

you farking OSX lovers ... if you so anti microstaff, put yo balls where yo mout be. this is a beta release of just the GUI ... it has nothing to do with system performance, end-product delivery, or other such ******* sheet. if i had a plane, i'd crash it into yo moder farking iceholes. yours, biff of colowado.

Calm down, usama bin windows... Besides, wouldn't it be more fun to crash a plane into Apple's headquarters? Just think of all the people who might be upset you did that...

this is a beta release of just the GUI ... it has nothing to do with system performance, end-product delivery, or other such ******* sheet. ---- Wow.. can we get an official ruling here.. I heard it was the OPPOSITE.. Defending the ugly UI, MS said. this is UNDER THE HOOD stuff.. the UI will change later (which makes sense, since UI is last priority stuff)

"If you are going to bash the Mac or OS X, you should have a LITTLE bit of knowledge or experience with it. " Not so fast. I USED Mac OS and Mac OS X for several years, then decided to switch. So I feel perfectly fine bashing away at Mac OS, thank you.

"Your kidding right? Apple has one of the most propietary development model there is? Ya its based on UNIX but it's there locked down version." Wrong. You don't know what you are talking about. OS X is based on Darwin, which is open source. "Everyone is always like Microsoft has media player built in please sue them, microsoft has IE builtin please sue them! They say it does not allow competitors to compete mmm APPLE-ITUNES-IPHOTO-SAFARI (ALL BUILTIN)" How do you uninstall WMP and IE? LOL! iPhoto is not built in. I can drag iTunes and Safari to the trash, easily. Microsoft is a monopoly. Apple is not. That's what you are missing. "I will tell you becuase your 3% of the market share and the tiniest blip on the screen thats why always will be too" Actually, they recently went up to 4.5%, according to IDG. It's the iPod halo effect, I guess, and people are getting tired of the hassles in Windows. What do you think that market share will be like when Dell starts selling PCs with OS X, huh? It will happen within 3 years. "hows this for propietary IPOD-ITUNES (NO EXCEPTION!) MMMM" iTunes plays MP3s just fine. How do you rip music into MP3 in default Windows XP? You can't? How do you watch DVDs in default XP? You can't? Oh, well I'm sure Microsoft supports MPEG 4, right? No? What about Java? No? You have to download it? OS X comes with standards technology, my friend: 1. MP3 2. Java 3. CSS 4. HTML 5. MPEG4 6. DVD playback (MPEG2) 7. H.264 8. ACC "any other microsoft media device can play with tons of players including media player" It's still proprietary! They play Microsoft's WMA! Who created ACC? It's an open standard, part of MPEG4. What does iTunes rip? It rips MP3 and ACC. Does WMP play MP3 or ACC by default? No.

"Not so fast. I USED Mac OS and Mac OS X for several years, then decided to switch. So I feel perfectly fine bashing away at Mac OS, thank you." Great, than why don't you bash accurately. OS X is what's relevant, not your experience seven years ago with OS 8 or OS 9. I'm talking about Windows XP, thank you very much. XP is garbage. Let's go to Zdnet.com/community XP tech support forum and read all the posts from XP users about the registry, viruses, adware. spyware, etc. I uninstalled Photoshop from XP once and it asked me if I wanted to delete 134 separate DLLs. LOL! What a joke. Do you want to delete DLL X, it may screw up Windows if you do. And after uninstalling an application, Windows usually thinks the application is still there. Right-click on a file and the application I uninstalled two weeks ago shows up in the contextual menu. Ha! I have to manually delete it from the Start Menu because the stupid uninstaller left it there. And don't get me started on how much the task bar sucks. THE TASK BUTTONS ARE IN A DIFFERENT ORDER EVERY WORK SESSION YOU HAVE! What kind of task switcher gives me no ability to memorize the order? With the Dock, my application icons are fixed, in the same spot. I always know where Photoshop is because it's always in the same spot. But with XP, Photoshop's task button may be over here or there or over on the right... Crap.

And those task buttons in XP's task bar are always TRUNCATED! So tell me which one is Photoshop given "Adobe...", "Adobe...", "Adobe..." LOL! And Microsoft tried to patch this flawed task bar by introducing groups, right? But when you have a group, you can't just click on the damn thing to bring up the application. You have to click on it and that brings up a pop-up of your documents and then you have to choose one of those. TWO CLICKS TO SWITCH TO THE APPLICATION! Crap. The Dock is superior to the task bar. I hate the task bar. With the Dock, I have fixed icons that launch the application and also switch to the application. They are always in the same spot. I have muscle memory there. Right-clicking on the Dock icon gives you functions, like play/pause/next/etc. I have 33 application icons on my Dock right now at a size that is 3X larger than the stupid QuickLaunch bar icons in Windows. Another great thing about the Dock is it sizes everything down if it needs more room. The Windows task bar just makes things disappear and gives you a stupid arrow that you have to click on to see the rest of your tasks/icons. USING WINDOWS IS LIKE PLAYING "WHERE'S WALDO".

And Windows XP has this stupid SDI and MDI methods of using applications. I'm in Photoshop, and I have a single task button for Photoshop. I'm in Word, and I have a separate task button for each document. LOL!! So the end user has to memorize what each application is (SDI or MDI) and they have to work in two completely different ways, depending on which application he is using. I'm in Flash and I want to go to a specific document in Photoshop. You have to click on the Photoshop task button (or press CMND TAB four times in a row) and then go to the Windows menu and then select the document. In OS X with the Dock, you right-click on any application's Dock icon and it lists all the documents open in that application. So if I were in Flash in OS X and wanted to go to a specific document in Photoshop, I just right-click on the Photoshop icon in the Dock and select the document I want. Of course, I could always use Exposé, which kicks serious ***. Exposé is the single feature that I can't live without and there's nothing like it in XP. I thought MS was going to rip that off of Apple too and include it in Vista, but it looks like they may not be able to get around the patent this time.

And why doesn't the Start Menu actually include every application you have? It doesn't. It only includes the applications that put a shortcut in the Start Menu folder. There are several applications that come with Windows XP that aren't listed there. That's retarded. And the Windows Explorer is such a pain in the *** to use. You have all these Explorer bars that you have to bring up on top of each other, so I'm clicking constantly. I want favorites, so I click on favorites, but then the Explorer bar disappears and I see favorites. But wait, I want the media preview, so I have to bring that up. And that Folders Explorer bar puts the entire hierarchy in a single pane, which means I have to constantly scroll up and down. The OS X Column view is superior, and Microsoft is ripping it off by creating breadcrumbs (what the hell is up with that name) in the address bar in Explorer. It's an inferior version that doesn't let you see the hierarchy at once. Column view in OS X rocks. It lets you see the contents of an entire hierarchy at once and drag files back up levels of your hierarchy without scrolling.

I know this is off-topic, but please show a little bit more class when you're ranting. Using "retarded" is inappropriate.

So does Windows Vista improve on any of this? No! They made the Start Menu worse because now it scrolls your entire "All Programs" list in the Start Menu. Stupid. The task bar works exactly the same. Stupid. MDI? SDI? Yep. We still have both.

"Great, than why don't you bash accurately. " Where weren't I accurate in the things I said? I guess you mistake me for someone else, cause everyone here posts as Anonymous. "OS X is what's relevant, not your experience seven years ago with OS 8 or OS 9." Why don' you actually READ what I am writing? I said I used Mac OS AND Mac OS X for years. The switch to windows was only two or three years ago (That was when Apple pulled the nice .Mac trick on users and their G4 were dogslow compared to what AMD and Intel had to offer). So actually the last Mac OS I seriously used was Mac OS 10 10.2 Sure, you will tell me that since than, a lot has happened, and 10.4 is worlds better, but from everything I read and seen about, it just doesn't justify to buy a expensive new Mac. I will look into it next year when I will buy a new computer anyway, but I doubt I will switch platforms again. I just don't feel the need to.

"That was when Apple pulled the nice .Mac trick on users and their G4 were dogslow compared to what AMD and Intel had to offer). So actually the last Mac OS I seriously used was Mac OS 10 10.2 Sure, you will tell me that since than, a lot has happened, and 10.4 is worlds better, but from everything I read and seen about, it just doesn't justify to buy a expensive new Mac. I will look into it next year when I will buy a new computer anyway, but I doubt I will switch platforms again. I just don't feel the need to." OK, so where did you say one thing about OS X? So far, you are a typical cheap PC user who complains about Apple's prices and you haven't said one thing about OS X. That's what we are discussing. OS X and Windows Vista. So you had free email with ZERO ads and then you had to pay up if you wanted to keep that free email. along with other services. Cry me a river. Go get free Hotmail or free Yahoo email. No big deal. Certainly not a legitimate reason to switch your platform and buy all new software. Certainly not a reason to endure all the Windows hassles.

It's always price with you PC zealots. You want to save yourself a day of work in money when you buy the hardware, yet you never realize you spend two weeks a year, at least, keeping your damn Windows machine running. The CEO of Intel spends 2 hours a freaking week maintaining his PCs! He said that recently. But hey, you can build a PC with an AMD processor for $100 less than a Mac mini.

"Using "retarded" is inappropriate." Why?

Pressed about security by Mr. Mossberg, Mr. Otellini had a startling confession: He spends an hour a weekend removing spyware from his daughter's computer. And when further pressed about whether a mainstream computer user in search of immediate safety from security woes ought to buy Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh instead of a Wintel PC, he said, "If you want to fix it tomorrow, maybe you should buy something else."

52 hours X your hourly rate X years you have your PC = a lot more money than a Mac!!!!

This is a benign statement as apple is going to intel chipset!... DUH! Even Apple hates their chipset! "Pressed about security by Mr. Mossberg, Mr. Otellini had a startling confession: He spends an hour a weekend removing spyware from his daughter's computer. And when further pressed about whether a mainstream computer user in search of immediate safety from security woes ought to buy Apple Computer Inc.'s Macintosh instead of a Wintel PC, he said, "If you want to fix it tomorrow, maybe you should buy something else."

Who stole what? OSX kernel? Darwin UNIX, Sys V. OSX desktop environment? CDE, Solaris UNIX. Centered buttons that zoom and light up on mouseover? GNOME 2.x, Linux. Need I say more? How do you upgrade a Mac? You go to the store, shell out almost $2000, then take home and spend hours transferring your files. PC? Go to the store, buy your memory, CPU, etc, take it home, install it, back to work. Your dual proc G4's are faster than 64-bit? Let's look at your numbers versus the numbers on my UltraSPAEC 5.

I have yet to hear of a feature in OCX that didn't already exist for years. Next one of you will be saying that Apple invented the menu bar or shortcuts or something. OSX Dock = Quick Launch (Windows) Dashboard = Active Desktop (Windows) Users folder = Users folder (UNIX) iPods = every other MP3 player, but more expensive As far as I know, Apple has yet to create an innovative idea ever.