Reader Comments

Oh, first post!

I won't wait for Longhorn. My four years experience with Windows was costly and frustrating. I have returned to the Mac platform.

>it's important to understand that the public still hasn't seen a lot of the cool features that Microsoft will be including in Longhorn. that's true, it isn't 6 p.m. yet

How can "charges related to Microsoft's legal expenses and stock-based compensation" have an effect on revenues?!? Earnings = Revenues - Cost. Legal expenses = cost, stock-based compensation = cost. 101 business...

I'm really glad to see a reasoning behind the "Train Wreck" comment. I'd like to think longhorn seems a featureless unimpressive mess at this stage beacuse they've been working *so* hard under the covers, making it secure. better for business and even kinder to developers. One thing struck my mind too - sure the Hardware guys at WinHec would be more interested in WDF than Aero Glass... why would IHVs care a lot about the UI? From what i understand, most of the new driver infrastructure is done, probably in 5048... so for those IHVs (who i guess winHec was really aimed at) they got what they wanted in longhorn!

Well as long as MS give me something for XP to compensate for the wait, who cares! Altho really, I think the time for linux to make an impact is soon to arrive.

I have been pondering a move to Apple and Tiger. However, I might have to look into this whole "Tiger on Intel," as one of the major things holding me back from making the commitment is having to buy new hardware.

As tired of MS as Paul seems to be lately, I wonder why he doesn't simply abandon the platform and embrace the Mac?

How can LH be 3 years late? XP debuted in late 2001. At the 2003 PDC, LH was unvelied. LH wasn't scheduled to be released before 2005! So how is it 3 years late? At best, it's a year late. Paul you're an idiot sometimes!!! You're articles this week are a trainwreck.

A lot of the Longhorn wrangling seems to be driven by Microsoft's need to release *something* to placate businesses that bought off on its subscription maintenance plans a while back. Maybe they should just extend the subscriptions for free. In any case, large data centers don't switch OS versions over night. Lots of people are just ramping up on W2K3. I doubt whether the data center world actually needs Longhorn in 2006 (or even 2007).

Have got my hands on Longhorn 5048 I have to say i Love it. It rock! best thing is there no side bar that pee me off in eary builds. As for Lohnghorn being a train Wreck Not so much! I think Microsoft can put it back on the rails as it were! give the time there got it may not be all they said it was going to be, but at lest it have some off it which is better ten not have loghorn at all is it?

Regarding the settlement of the Nebraska class action suit: No, the primary beneficiaries will not be poor schools in Nebraska. The primary beneficiaries will be the lawyers, who produce no value, sucking the lifeblood out of Microsoft, which, Mac and Linux fanboy comments notwithstanding, does create value.

Does anyone else remember the days when people were saying that Microsoft was relaseing new versions of Windows too fast, i.e. before there was a market need for them? I dont understand all the complaining over Longhorn, yeah, I wish I had it last year, but MS is gaurunteed more sales with it's corporate customers if it releases a new version every 5 years compared to every 2 years.

“Over promise and under deliver” will be the stigma associated with Longhorn throughout its life cycle. The fact that we are even comparing a MAC os to a Windows os in this decade speaks volumes. You must give praise where it’s rightfully due – job well done Macintosh.

Of course Apple has MacOS X running on Intel hardware in the labs. They did the same thing with MacOS 7, 8, and 9, and actually released a developer preview of Rhapsody, the early development version of MacOS X, for Intel. It's not a matter of technology. It's a matter of productization and developer support. There's no product strategy for it, and there's no room at WWDC (Apple's annual World-Wide Developer's Conferece) for it, so it's not going to happen this year.

Rumours of OS X on Intel have been around since Apple put up Darwin for download on their web site. It's not going to happen. It doesn't even make sense. Apple hardware and OS X is one cohesive product because the hardware is controlled. Even third party hardware conforms to Apple's specs so it plays nice. If you add in random hardware from hundreds of manufacturers you will have a problem. First, OS X would need to support a bunch of generic PC-world drivers so installing new hardware wouldn't break it. This means everything from the motherboard to the AGP chipset and many different add-in cards. Apple's 'it just works' philosophy would break in a saturated hardware market. Second, commodity hardware prices would spell disaster for Apple's bottom line. That's where they make most of their money.

Apple will never, as long as they are a hardware/software company go to Intel based computers. Steve Jobs has stated that they could, but Apple is a hardware/software company, so the Intel rumors, are just that, look up the Star Trek project that was done in the 90’s with Apple and IBM. As for Longhorn. I can only hope that it does come out. That it gives the user better performance, security and that “ease of use” that Microsoft has been saying their product produce. I can only hope, but if not, I still have my OS X!

(MAC = Media Access Control, and is the address your Ethernet card uses. Mac = short for Macintosh. It's not an acronym.)

Quote: "The primary beneficiaries will be the lawyers, who produce no value, sucking the lifeblood out of Microsoft, which, Mac and Linux fanboy comments notwithstanding, does create value." Yes, MS does create value, but anti-competitive business practices by a monopoly hurt the industry's value. Everybody benefits when multiple companies are competing strongly with one another. They innovate faster, come to market faster and deliver a more solid product. In a competitive environment a company will spend money and other resources to make sure this happens. Right now Microsoft has very little reason to make sure Longhorn comes out soon and delivers on its promises. Why? Because very few people are going to run out and buy a Mac if Longhorn sucks. MS will still have a 97%+ market share and they know it. What do you think MS would do if 50% of its customers were on the verge of buying a Mac? I think Longhorn production would skyrocket and it would end up as the best OS they've every made.

its the end of april where the hell is msn toolbar suite with desktop search. hopefully it can somewhat compare to spotlight in a sense with more options of viewing the files in your search.

The new 5048 build of Longhorn is actually VERY stable. Some of the eye candy is there if you want to activate it. Since I have installed this build at the show I have decided to run it as my primary and 5 days running it has yet to let me down. This is going to be an amazing platform for Microsoft. As for OSX moving to x64, bring it on!

One good reason to keep OS X running on Intel is to ensure that the OS team is being good about using the HAL rather than writing direct to hardware. Apple has a hard enough time releasing new hardware without having to rewrite low-level calls from the OS because the new machine broke them. So Paul, the rumor you hear is right, but it's nothing new. Don't expect Apple to move to Intel. A move to POWER for xServe would be a reasonable move though because it would be controlled by the small market and the cost of such systems.

I am looking forward to Longhorn. Unlike Paul I don't think it is a "Train Wreck". It is a major project. MS is not just tweaking XP like they did with 2000. This is a major change in UI, security, and other fundamental OS technology. Microsoft will add all the features they talked about to Longhorn after the first version is shipped. I can wait. I would rather they do it right the first time. Plus XP is fine OS until then. I remember the Windows 3.1 days :)

Off-topic: I come to offer a truce. I'm a Mac user whose been commenting in the past two WinHEC articles. I'm here to offer a truce with Windows users. I'll stop bashing Windows users if you stop bashing Mac users. In the end, I think you guys do acknowledge that OS X is ahead with Tiger at this point in time. I also acknowledge Microsoft is trying to fix the broken-ness of Windows with Longhorn. And I think we both agree that it sucks that it's at least a year-and-a-half away, and that it's cool that OS X has it out right now for Mac users. I seriously think a lot of you would fall in love with OS X upon using it, and recognize that Windows has a lot of flaws. OS X has flaws too, of course.

Hey! Useful intellectual comments today! (Except this one)

This article is really disappointing. Longhorn is really disappointing. Mostly because Microsoft promised so much...overpromised hype to kill competitor buzz, I believe, and a classic Microsoft strategy which doesn't work anymore in this Internet age. I looked at Longhorn as the release to finally "fix" everything that has been wrong with Windows. Other operating systems (yes, I'm referring to OS X here) modernized their platforms years ago, and Windows was sorely lacking. I'm not even getting into the security issues here. I fully believe the Longhorn project should have just been a group of installable add-ons for Windows XP, perhaps released yearly. As it is, Longhorn is shaping up to be a pointless release, as all its APIs will be available for XP anyway. This leaves Aero Glass as the only reason to upgrade, which will require hardware upgrades. I'm not going to buy a 2.5Ghz machine with a GeForce 6800 just to run a shiny Windows shell. That's ridiculous, especially when OS X's similarly glossy interface even runs on old Mobility Radeons with 32MB of VRAM. I'm one of these guys who uses Macs at home but has to use Windows at work. I will be picking up Tiger tonight. in just 18 months since the last release (Panther), Apple has included a lot of Microsoft's Longhorn featureset, but available today. At 6pm. Not 20 or so months from now. If there was ever an example of how the bloat of a massive company can kill its ability to accomplish anything, Microsoft Longhorn is it. Windows 95 was the last release of Windows I was ever excited about, simply because it was finally a real MacOS-like GUI platform for PCs. But XP has been "good enough" for too long, and most people won't see a reason to switch. Hell, a ton of people never saw a reason to move up from the much faster Windows 2000, and seriously...can you think of a reason to? I just don't know why I need Longhorn anymore. Looking forward to Thurrott's behind-the-scenes Longhorn article.

Does anyone else remember the days when people were saying that Microsoft was relaseing new versions of Windows too fast, i.e. before there was a market need for them? ---- Er.. so even back in the 80's MS was paying off reporters? No seriously, when has MS been ahead of the curve, or too generous with releases? What are you talking about? The little outburst where they had Win98, then 2000, Me, XP bunched together...er.. yeah.. I believe the expression is two steps forward 1 step back.. Like one of the posters says, my biggest problem with LH is the hype is incredible. The kind of rhetoric emanating from Redmond is 'change the world' stuff.. and when we get the beta, we find that it's stagnated and been castrated since we last saw it--slight discrepancy. So far.. SP3.. give them time..

Don't believe the Tiger on Intel. This is Thurrott's paid disinformation on behalf of his sponsors. Who has the most to gain if you disregard the advances of Tiger and don't migrate to Apple? Also ask yourself why these comments would be made at WinHEC. Thurrott is either making them up, paid to say them, or he's actually quoting people--but one is from Intel and the other is a "Microsoft evangelist"! I've reviewed Tiger from top to bottom, and dead seriously, this is impressive. Do I want the cost of switching? No. The hassle? No. Do I want weekly installs of patches? No. Is the constant security updating of apps agreeable to me? No. Did I zero-out my wife's XP P4 (pre-SP2) because, despite XP and hardware firewalls, was it a zombie? Yes. Did I look at the Macs (running Panther) seriously when I bought my wife's new iPod mini at the Apple Store? Yes. Gee, I've never had a problem with either of our iPods, never a problem with the iTunes Music Store, never a problem with iTunes. Coincidence? NO.

"That's ridiculous, especially when OS X's similarly glossy interface even runs on old Mobility Radeons with 32MB of VRAM." Better yet, does run quite good on really old ATi Rage 128 with 8MB of VRAM... That comprises the last G3 PowerBooks, "gumdrop" iMacs and iBooks. On 300MHz-500MHz G3's no less, and without switching of any eye-candy!

Technically, Apple could launch OS X on Intel. Heck, I remember running NeXTSTEP on Intel hardware many years ago. But even at that point, they had the Apple mentality of limiting the supported hardware, similar to what they do now. So even though they may be able to do it, there would be a support nightmare testing against the diversity that is the Intel/PC world.

Apple will ship OS X for x86 in one of two situations: 1.) Apple, for whatever reason, is on the ropes and is about to die. The loss of hardware sales is outweighed by the need for income from OS X on x86. So they release it and take over (I think we can all agree Windows would suddenly face some very serious competition with an x86 version of OS X...people would install in droves to run screaming away from Windows and all its quirks). 2.) Apple is so successful with their hardware and software sales (we're talking major success) that the potential loss of hardware sales doesn't affect their bottom line anyway, so they release OS X for x86 just to finally kill off the last of the Windows users. Apple would have to be doing very, very poorly or very, very well. Right now, they're just doing very well. Personally, I prefer Apple's hardware anyway because it's beautiful, easier to maintain, less complicated, and the PowerPC architecture is better than x86 anyway. Especially with the Cell technology coming from IBM in the future. Apple's hardware is simply better right now. That's why Mac users have been enjoying very simple and reliable sleep capabilities in all their laptops and desktop machines, while the Wintel world is a mess of poor APCI implementations that sometimes work and not as well or as fast. Obviously, this will improve with time, but it will cost money. I could be wrong, but OS X on x86 is just the same old pipe-dream. And of course it benefits Windows hardware manufacturers at WinHEC to start rumors of OS X for x86! Not gonna happen. Steve Jobs and company are way too committed to aesthetic to let Dell come in with their ugly-*** el cheapo machines and run OS X.

I don't agree with Paul and others about LH being a wreck, 5048 is stable and works for those who have tried it and now use it day to day, and this isn't even a beta 1 version, keep in mind MS was using build 5060 in it's demos, what it gives to WinHEC people is for making drivers and other hardware run and work right on this new platform. It's not ment to grab desktop users attention and get them to start buying anything at this point. Only with Beta 2 will we start to get an idea of what's really going on with this new OS. It also takes lots of time and work hours to totally change the way Windows works and still have it be compatible with todays and yesterdays apps/hardware. The OS already has new and re-writen parts from the kernel and up. The fact it still looks like XP doesn't mean anything at this point. MS said with the screenshot bit that many parts in the UI aren't yet patented etc, this could also be true for many new things we haven't seen or heard about at this point. Keeping large parts of the project in secret isn't a bad thing at all, and is just a smart business move. You don't want others copying your ideas before your product is done. I think that build 5048 was made on April 1st also? I could be wrong but I think someone said it already, and looking at the build information should say it, and MS makes new builds every day now from what Paul has said. This brings the build count up to what?? 5076 or maybe higher? We really don't know at this point where Longhorn is at as we speak. I can wait for another year, and all the parts that aren't in it will come on free a few months after with SP1 or R1 which is what they've done and are still doing with Windows Server 2003.

"How can LH be 3 years late? XP debuted in late 2001. At the 2003 PDC, LH was unvelied. LH wasn't scheduled to be released before 2005! So how is it 3 years late? At best, it's a year late." Because you are arbitrarily choosing one of the many sliding dates that Microsoft has used. Blackcomb was supposed to ship in 2002-2003. (Remember the complaints about shipping OSes in a year to a year and a half around XP's release?) They abandoned that codeword and said Longhorn would replace it in 2003. Then Longhorn became more "ambitious" and slid to 2004... but we all expected 2005. Then it slid again to late 2006. Allchin said late 2006, as in VERY late... just prior to year end... many, many months ago. Paul decided to make up his own dates and was expecting June 2006. That's clearly wrong now and Microsoft will be lucky if it's Oct-Nov 2006. And it's still likely to slip into 2007. That's how it's 3 years late and likely to become almost 5 years late.

From the Winsupersite, these are Microsoft's recommended hardware requirements for running Windows Longhorn: "Desktop CPU: 3 GHz Intel Pentium 4 processor with HyperThreading Technology 530 (or higher) or 3 GHz Intel Xeon processor with 2 MB L2 cache, or AMD Athlon 64, Sempron, or Opteron 100, 200, or 800 processor, single or dual-core versions. Mobile CPU: 1.86 GHz Intel Pentium M processor 750 (or higher), or AMD Turion 64 Mobile Technology, Mobile Sempron, or Mobile Athlon 64 processor. RAM: 512 MB of RAM or more, all platforms." I'm sorry, but that's just insane, even for May 2006 (Microsoft's planned RTM date). I don't even know anyone who has more than a 2ghz machine. Unlike Windows XP, it really does appear that Microsoft is insistent that you buy a whole new computer to be able to fully run Longhorn. This just seems more and more of a tougher sell than it did 12 months ago. I'm sure Longhorn will run on today's machines using downplayed visuals and features, but then what's the point of upgrading to it? XP already runs on today's hardware but will be receiving Longhorn's APIs anyway. Microsoft should make Longhorn's APIs Longhorn-only if they want to give people a real reason to upgrade. Fast Search is nice, but it's already out today in OS X Tiger, and available for XP in the form of Google Desktop Search. I'm just not seeing the reasons to upgrade to Longhorn, but that's just me. Don't get me wrong; it's features and technology changes are nice. But none of them justify an entire new PC purchase to me.

This has been a very interesting read but... I've just answered my door and now have Tiger in my hands! Yeah FedEX! Just had to share... ;-)

1. MacOS X on x86: no way... Read these 2 articles: - Cell Architecture Explained: - John Siracusa's review of Tiger (especially the part on Quartz, Quartz2D Extreme, CoreImage and CoreVideo): and then ask yourself frankly: why should Apple abandon the PowerPC architecture ? I also think that, today and for the next 10 years to come, no commercial OS vendor will able to make a frontal attack on the Windows franchise. But think of the trojan horse strategy Apple has adopted for QuickTime, and then for iTunes... that could lead us to: 2. Cocoa for Windows ?!? Before Cocoa, before Rhapsody, there was OpenStep for Windows, OpenStep for Solaris,... So, now that: - the APIs of MacOS X are stabilized, - Apple will be adding that these API, - the graphic industry is no more tied to MacOS 9 because of Quark XPress, - and more important, that third-party developers are finally exploiting Cocoa instead of Carbon... the best gift Apple could make to its developer community is to release Cocoa for Windows at WWDC 2006... :-) Think about it for a minute...

Big Layoffs are coming at Microsoft boyz. Mark my words. These guys are in big trouble. I bet the boys are sitting around the board room restructuring the company right now. As Paul said, these guys are basically in disarray. Time to short the stock.

Reading Ars Technica's incredible review of Tiger, I learned a lot about Apple's long-term development vision. I had no idea about the metadata drama, and this review, in addition to making me wonder why Windows is even considered to be in the same league as OS X (seriously, I don't know enough about Windows internals), gave me a lot of hope for the future of the OS. I hope Microsoft recognizes what they're really up against and pulls it through to deliver something great. Though Apple's marketshare is miniscule in comparison to Windows, the computer industry is incredibly fast, and it only takes a few years for something to fall and get replaced by the next cycle. I think I remember reading Bill Gates saying this one time. To paraphrase, he said he doesn't always expect Microsoft to be around forever, and that it would be silly to assume so because of the nature of the industry.

"(MAC = Media Access Control, and is the address your Ethernet card uses. Mac = short for Macintosh. It's not an acronym.)" You read my mind, lol, I was about to post the same thing earlier today!

"However, it's clear now that Microsoft is not so much a single enormous entity as it is 100's of large, autonomous entities. And getting these groups to work in concert is almost impossible." So Microsoft is not really a 600 lb. gorilla. It's more like a bunch of little chimpanzees.

In that case, should Microsoft be flinging a certain item at Apple?

woah.. slowdown..?? All the Mac users are drooling over Tiger, I guess...

A Mac with an Intel or AMD CPU would just be another Apple box. I'm sure Apple will do all it can to stop us from running the OS on some other manufacturers PC. The OS drives hardware sales and that's what brings in the money. But a Mac with PowerPC+Intel+Cell processors playing together would be a sweet thing!! I echo the previous posters; Ars Technica's Tiger article is the best review of anything in a long time: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars Paul, do check it out if you haven't yet : ) J

"woah.. slowdown..?? All the Mac users are drooling over Tiger, I guess.." LOL, yeah the sound of thousands of Tiger DVD's spinning in their drives. It took me about 20 minutes to upgrade. Still downloading some of the cooler freeware dashboard widgets (i.e. WiFi Directory, package tracker) and getting used to the new features. Spotlight took about 20 minutes to index my drives after the install. I "drag and dropped" my 30GB home directory back and all my photos, videos, mail, docs, app preferences, and music work perfectly. Now I can instantly search on EXIF data on 2000+ photos, Spotlight is really well implemented and overall Tiger runs markedly faster than any previous OS X release. The RSS screensaver and H.264 hi def videos at Apple.com look fantastic!

Fellow posters: I just felt I should mention that the comments here have been informative and civil. Congratulations, you rarely see that on this site. Keep it up, folks.

As someone who uses both Windows and Mac, it is striking how there are areas where Apple is clearly ahead (graphic model...Avalon is years away), while many other "incomplete" aspects of the underlying subsystems haven't been noticed by the Mac faithful (but are touted when they are finally added--see fast user switching). Many of the improvements in the OS X kernel noted in Ars review have been in Windows from the inception of NT (& windows API's have been stable and backward compatible for years.) If anything, Apple's success proves that the user experience is everything....no one really notices the underlying "hacks" or "missing kernel hooks" in the Mac, because the platform is easly to use and the UI looks nice.... Apple has been able to do more with less...spotlight is really a glorified indexer, while Microsoft has struggled with their all-new database driven file system....Microsoft has been busy developing the .Net framework and many other technolgies (many of which have been scaled back or cancelled), while it seems that everything that apple has tried lately has made the product...a story of Microsoft's sheer size becomes too unwieldly...although if they ever get the product out the door, I'm sure that it will be compelling...

To all the people who have switched to mac or use mac or what ever. Save it no one cares. Only a few people use macs, and I understand you wish that would change. Let's face it, no one uses macs today, and no one will ever use macs. Save us all the wasted time of reading your posts, and go back to your mac sites, where less than 2 percent of PC users find useful info. That way we can discuss advances in computing that matter. We do not want to talk about macs, read about macs, buy macs, or in my opinion, even hear the opinion of mac users. Save your opinion for the other people at the mac sites who use photoshop for a living. WE DONT CARE Thanks.

"We do not want to talk about macs, read about macs, buy macs, or in my opinion, even hear the opinion of mac users." Hey, now THERE'S an open mind. Go light your candles & saddle up the horse.

"To all the people who have switched to mac or use mac or what ever. Save it no one cares." Apparently you do, or you wouldn't have responded. Sounds like you're upset that people are switching in droves. "Only a few people use macs, and I understand you wish that would change." Even the military runs OS X for army.mil. They used to use Windows...until their website got hacked. They switched to OS X almost immediately. All the movies and music you watch/listen to? All created on Macs. "Let's face it, no one uses macs today, and no one will ever use macs. Save us all the wasted time of reading your posts, and go back to your mac sites, where less than 2 percent of PC users find useful info. That way we can discuss advances in computing that matter." Like desktop search and 3D window animations? Haha. OS X has them already, pal. Have fun waiting for 2007. "We do not want to talk about macs, read about macs, buy macs, or in my opinion, even hear the opinion of mac users. Save your opinion for the other people at the mac sites who use photoshop for a living. WE DONT CARE Thanks." It really sounds like you're angry over the fact people are waking up to Windows XP's major deficiencies. Have fun waiting two years for OS X's features as you run in your admin account just to get your work done. :) Macs have a much wider installbase than the market figures you cite, which go by annual sales. Users keep their Macs longer because they're not caught in the bogus yearly PC upgrade cycle. OS X gets faster with each release, unlike Windows, which gets slower. The reason people mention Macs here is because most of us are level-headed and use both platforms, and we're not blinded Microsoft kidz who have accepted their marketing pamphlets and think everything they do is "innovative." OS X matters because it's the alternate operating system to Windows and, in the future, Longhorn, and many of us recognize that OS X has been leaps ahead of Windows for four whole years.

"That way we can discuss advances in computing that matter." Such as "Longhorn is a train wreck?" Using OS X Tiger makes Windows appear so incredibly sad and behind. I feel sorry for Windows users who don't even realize they're six years behind in operating system computing and design. You'd drool if you saw my Dashboard widget set up right now and Smart Folder collection that lets me organize my files. Windows XP? You guys get a green Start menu, the horrible interface design of the century--a collection of shortcuts to folders and not the actual folders themselves, confusing users. Congratulations! In Windows Longhorn, it will be DirectX-accelerated green. That laughably named "Recycle Bin"? Came from the Mac. Pulldown menus? Came from the Mac. Icons representing files and mouse operationgs to interact with them? Came from the Mac. Start menu? Came from the Mac as an attempt to rip off the Apple menu. Your Windows XP Luna theme? Came from Microsoft seeing the original Aqua interface and hacking in a crappy blue theme to compete. Before you chime in with the "Apple stole from Xerox" comments, no they didn't. Xerox just had floating windows and a mouse cursor. No icons, menus, or anything. Apple invented the desktop paradigm you use in your antiquated Windows technology. OS X is built on brand-new, modern technologies like Quartz and Cocoa. Windows is still using the aging Win32 architecture and 2D graphics operations to get anything done. .NET? Just a complete clone of Java. Microsoft can't create anything on their own. You only use and like Windows because everyone else uses it, and it plays your games. That makes you a sheep. Meanwhile, more and more people are switching to Macs, as stated by even Forbes Magazine. Longhorn is going to be a flop. But, hey--have fun buying a whole new 3ghz PC just to boot it. All part of that bogus yearly PC upgrade cycle Microsoft has you in to make them and Intel money. Meanwhile, Tiger is out NOW.

"Nobody uses Macs." Except for the military, the entire media content industry, universities, and millions of users worldwide. :) Do you listen to music? Most music is made on Macs using Pro Tools. They wouldn't touch Windows with a ten-foot pole. Why do you think that is? Do you watch movies? All composited and often edited on Macs. Even Pixar uses all Macs. It's really sad when all Windows users have to bash Mac users is "we have more marketshare." Is that seriously how you determine a better operating system? Britney Spears also sells more albums than Mozart. Does that make her a better artist? You sound like high school kids who wear the clothing line all the other kids wear, and think that makes it better. Embarrassing.

A question more than a comment: - will longhorm still have apps install and overwrite files in the system directories? If so, I have already lost all interest.

Greetings (first post)... Maybe it's just me, but: Longhorn = Copland For those not old enough to recall, Apple wasted several years trying to move past the excellent for its time System 7, bombed, made several lousy choices, and tried to redefine the whole damn game with its Copland OS. It never made it. The betas looked good, there were hopes, but the many Apple units never could talk to each other, just like the many MS units aren't doing now. Where am I coming from (seems important in this conversation)? I've used a bunch of systems, I use what's most important to my work at that moment. I have no dog in the fight over which is best (what a stupid conversation - can't we all be henotheistic? Sheesh. Tiger is astonishing, Longhorn will probably do a few nice things, but right now it really is a train wreck. Sigh.

The basic premise that all apps can stampede into Windows/system32 is a hallmark that continues unobstructed into Longhorn. Instead of proper permissioning & segregation between system & apps, the MS answer is to hack on more CPU busting bloatware like "Windows File Protection" as a last resort for a handful of system files. Life goes on in .DLL hell. Sad, really.

When all the tired developers finish writing to all the tired APIs, and all the tired marketing wizards have convened with all the tired product managers, and all the tired CIOs have signed off on the requisitions of all the tired MIS department heads, and all the tired users have adjusted to all the tired interface improvements, Longhorn will still command a 94% market share! Buwhaaah hah hah hah hah hah haaaa--

All I am saying is Go back to a Apple site. This is a Windows site. We're not idiots! We read about MAC's too. I am not going to go to a Apple news site and discuss Window's! Duh. We go to MAC sites to discuss Mac's. Why do so many freagin Mac fans come here to talk about Macs??? It makes no sense! God, if I ever buy another Mac, please don't make me act this idiotic.

Even the military runs OS X for army.mil. They used to use Windows...until their website got hacked. They switched to OS X almost immediately. All the movies and music you watch/listen to? All created on Macs. I am getting tired of hearing this. If OSX was as common as Windows, you would have some serious issues. You act like you understand computing, and yet you don't understand the simple fact that... You can't have any viruses when 2 percent of the world uses your product. You understand a whole boat load of those are all laptops that are hardly ever connected. Oh the government uses macs on their web site. How nice of them. You know this is really important becuase the websites, are where all of their high profile military documents are stored right? I am sure corporal Bob is on the cutting edge of Technology; he's the apple enthusiast who's got the nations security riding on his shoulders. Lets see, what was Pixar using to Render their movies with? It's been a while sense I have checked...

"Longhorn is going to be a flop. But, hey--have fun buying a whole new 3ghz PC just to boot it." So, you come here, write comments, but don't read anything, it seems... ".NET? Just a complete clone of Java." And you have no clue about .NET.

“Over promise and under deliver” - isn't that the motto for all software companies?

One final thing to all people who thing Apple makes a better OS. Tiger came out less than a week ago. XP, came out years ago. This is like me buying an xbox 360, and then going to all of the folks who have PS2's and saying... My console is better... Mac fans are so lame... It's probably why most people refuse to use it. To those who claim Apple has anything to do with REAL COMPUTING, why did they have to build on top of UNIX? Heh? What answer do you lame *** people have for that heh? If the company was able to utilize a real OS, which they WROTE THEIR SELF!! and was more secure than windows, then I wouldn't be upset at your lame as photoshop using self coming here bragging off topic about your lame *** OS.

I really don't like Apple, i use only x86 computers, and i don't hate Windows but i don't understand why they've not already made OSX for x86 to reach the public. I know that Apple is a hardware company but Microsoft became popular because of their software products and Mac OS X would be really popular too, it's not a rumor. It could make a lot of cash for Apple. If Apple and mac zealots simply don't want more market share because that's the way they can keep OSX stable then please do not promote/advertise the macintosh here or anywhere else. Maybe Microsoft was lazy in the last few years but i'm sure they'll come up with something good next time. It's not our business to decide which OS is/will be better. We should use computers instead of acting like prig zealots. The companies like MS or Apple must compete with each other not the users............... What a shame!

Tiger came out less than a week ago. XP, came out years ago --- It's been a while since Mac OS X users have looked longingly at XP.. OS X has been out since 2001 putz.

It's not our business to decide which OS is/will be better ~~~~~ We're customers *******.. welcome to north america. we decide what to buy and we compare competing products. IT Pros indeed. PS. Do i detect undertones of "security through obscurity"? OS X is based on Unix man.. that's why there are zero security problems/viruses, etc. Sound too good to be true? Do some research.

Hey Windows kidz/gamerz, can you actually refute anything over at "http://www.xvsxp.com/"? OS X wins out against Windows. Have fun waiting another two whole years for your new Microsoft product while I do desktop search now, lol!

"".NET? Just a complete clone of Java." And you have no clue about .NET." Uh, C# is a complete rip-off of Java, from the namespace structure to the syntax of the language. Taking Java code and converting it to C# is just a matter of making a few changes at the top of the source files and fixing a few minor differences. Real technology has been invented before Microsoft cloned it, and more kids buy into Microsoft's marketing that it's somehow different when it's not. Sad.

"I am getting tired of hearing this." Because it crushes your argument. "If OSX was as common as Windows, you would have some serious issues." No you wouldn't. OS X is a UNIX system. There are no open ports like there are with Windows. Just this morning, I had to fix an infested Windows laptop that was rebooting on startup. You're honestly defending such a security-hole-ridden OS? "You act like you understand computing, and yet you don't understand the simple fact that... You can't have any viruses when 2 percent of the world uses your product." Wrong. If this were true, Apache webservers running on Linux would be hacked left and right because they're the majority webservers in the world. And yet, it's MICROSOFT WINDOWS that gets hacked more often. Who doesn't understand computing? Next. "You understand a whole boat load of those are all laptops that are hardly ever connected." Sure, I guess you took a survey of all Mac laptops used in the world. "Oh the government uses macs on their web site. How nice of them. You know this is really important becuase the websites, are where all of their high profile military documents are stored right?" What the hell does that have to do with anything? Government websites are high-profile, serious stuff that get targetted everyday. They chose OS X because they got tired of being hacked with Windows. Accept it. "I am sure corporal Bob is on the cutting edge of Technology; he's the apple enthusiast who's got the nations security riding on his shoulders." This doesn't even make sense and has nothing to do with anything. Let me know when you have an actual counterargument; otherwise, I acknowledge your defeat in this argument. "Lets see, what was Pixar using to Render their movies with? It's been a while sense I have checked..." You guessed it, OS X.

"One final thing to all people who thing Apple makes a better OS. Tiger came out less than a week ago. XP, came out years ago. This is like me buying an xbox 360, and then going to all of the folks who have PS2's and saying... My console is better..." No, it's not. But I'm glad to see you admit two things: 1.) That Windows XP sucks ***. 2.) Microsoft does this by speaking of Longhorn in the present tense to bash OS X Tiger, when Longhorn isn't out yet. It's hilarious. OS X already offers Longhorn's featureset. That must suck. "Mac fans are so lame..." Windows fans are just high school gamerz who don't realize they're propping up a crap-happy OS that forces them to run in an admin account in 2005. "It's probably why most people refuse to use it. To those who claim Apple has anything to do with REAL COMPUTING, why did they have to build on top of UNIX?" Uh, UNIX is real computing. You're saying they have nothing to do with real computing even though they bought an OS that's known for real computing? Get some real arguments, dumbass. You're making yourself look moronic here. "Heh? What answer do you lame *** people have for that heh? If the company was able to utilize a real OS, which they WROTE THEIR SELF!! and was more secure than windows, then I wouldn't be upset at your lame as photoshop using self coming here bragging off topic about your lame *** OS." Windows XP is based on NT, which is based on VMS, a different operating system that preceded it. Windows 9x was based on MS-DOS, which was based on DOS, which was bought from someone else by Microsoft. Microsoft is guilty of the very things you proclaim. If I was going to choose an OS for "REAL COMPUTING," I'd choose the UNIX-based system, not the crappy, security-hole-ridden, non-hardware-accelerated antiquated platform that is Windows. You run "installers" and "uninstallers" and deal with a broken registry; I just click-and-drag. It's obvious which is superior. Next!

Windows--for playing videogames. Like the Sims. Macs--for getting real work done. Installation: Windows--run an installer, which writes files to a "Program Files" directory, writes registry entries, writes system-wide config files, and creates an uninstaller. Creates an alias in the Start menu, confusing users who naturally think the Start menu is the actual "Program Files" folder. Run the uninstaller to delete the file. OS X--just drag the icon to the Applications folder. Drag to trash to delete. Security: Windows--a decade of malicious trojans, viruses, and bizarre security lapses like Blaster. Open ports galore ripe for the taking. Windows defaults to admin privileges for all accounts because it won't run correctly otherwise. Weekly patches, updates, and reboots. Hell for IT admins. OS X--no known trojan or virus in existence for five whole years. Technology: Windows--Antiquated 2D graphics that cause visual tearing when a window is dragged quickly. Movies chop up when the window is dragged all over the place. A Fisher Price interface, a horrible code-based interface designer that injects code into your source files to create the controls. OS X--OpenGL hardware-accelerated beautiful interface that doesn't get in your way. Quicktime movies play fluidly even when you shake the window all over the screen. NIB files are instanced GUI object graphcs, so there is no source-code-generation to create interfaces on OS X. You just load the NIB file. Community: Windows--gamers, high school kids, and Microsoft shills who don't want you to know about better alternatives because they control the tech media. OS X--university professors and students, graphics designers, UNIX programmers, film and music professionals, and normal end-users who just want something that works, not something they have to call other people to fix every week like Windows. Features: Windows--Longhorn has none; it's not out. OS X--has all of Longhorn's features NOW.

I didn't get ANY work done today because of people showing up at my desk wanting to see demos of Tiger. This morning I showed a handful of fellow IT guys some demos of downloading a 1000+ page PDF document and using Spotlight to find an obscure command on page 733 within a few seconds of it existing on the hardrive. After a full demo of the rest of the major features, they must have told more & more people as dozens showed up at my desk throughout the day, stating that "I heard this Tiger is something I HAVE to see.." I'm relatively new to Mac, but I've never seen such positive reaction to an OS. Have fun with XP!

Windows users are used to having things break. They're used to having to fix everything. I think they're resistant to OS X because they're not used to an OS that doesn't require any tinkering to just use everyday. I remember the night I got my Mac mini, I just booted it up and sat there, thinking like a Windows user does when they install Windows for the first time. "Okay, so I need to download security updates...oh. I don't. Okay, so I need to set up a firewall...oh. Well, I'll have to defragment, because...oh, HFS+ auto-defragments its files during file operations. I know, I need to download some apps to...oh. It comes with the apps I need to do that." --- It really was a weird feeling to just turn on the computer and not have to do anything to get it working correctly. It "just worked" already. You don't have to run "Windows Update" every week; you don't have to fix a broken registry or update drivers. Just plug **** in, it starts working instantly. Drag-and-drop to "install" apps. It's weird and great. I doubt Windows will ever achieve that kind of simplicity in design, due to both the architecture of Windows and the nature of a 10,000 permutations of commodity x86 machines. PCs are always breaking down and needing upgrading, costing thousands of dollars more than a Mac ever would. Macs just work and work for years, and each OS X release actually gets faster on them. Can you say that about Windows, huh? Windows gets slower and requires more resources with each release. 3ghz and 512MB requirements are insane. If you don't have those specs, Longhorn will just downgrade its featureset, which makes it no different from Windows XP. What's the point? Longhorn will just be catching up to what OS X has had for five years--hardware-accelerated graphics system, non-admin account, etc. You Windows guys should try OS X. You'll be left longing for it and having distaste for Windows because it gets in your way DAILY.

I hear Microsoft is now paying bloggers to shill for Longhorn. This is embarrassing. They don't want Longhorn screenshots to get out, but they'll pay bloggers to praise it? My next computer purchase will be an iMac G5.

"One final thing to all people who thing Apple makes a better OS. Tiger came out less than a week ago. XP, came out years ago." What does that matter? OS X came out the same year Windows XP did, and OS X was still better. All Windows XP did was take Windows 98, give it the 2000 kernel, and make its interface blue. I've actually had morons tell me Windows XP has a "task-oriented" interface, I guess just because it shows your most-used apps on the Start menu. Sad. My most-used apps are on my dock. My recently used documents are on my Apple menu. OS X has been ahead of Windows for quite some time now, even back then. I always laugh the way my Windows laptop freezes up for about ten seconds when it browses the company network shares. My OS X laptop loads those directories up in less than a second.

"Compared to the original vision for Longhorn, that's a train wreck." -- Paul Thurrott Sucks to be caught in Microsoft's monopoly like you guys. Most of you posting don't even seem to realize it. If Microsoft didn't bully OEMs and make shady deals, we'd all be using OS/2 and BeOS, which were both superior operating systems to what was out at the time, crappy Windows 3.1 and 95. But you guys are quite content to never step out of the bubble and realize there are better operating systems floating right by you. Microsoft has held back popular computing by about five years' time. Seriously, all the other OSes are ahead by that much, particularly OS X, which is now about seven years ahead with Tiger. I love hitting F12 to get a six-day forecast. Sweet.

Longhorn looks more and more like a webpage. Their strategy is to make everything look like a webpage. Even XP's horribly ugly explorer windows have those awful messes of hyperlinks running down the left side. I don't know anybody who uses those and I always turn them off. From the Longhorn screenshots, it looks like Microsoft's bombarding the users with even more unused links and graphics. I just want to browse my files! :(

I like to make notes of things by saving them as text files with the note in the filename. On windows, I have to fire up Notepad and do the "File...Save As" thing. On my Mac, I just made an Automator script that gives me a text box and lets me save the file anywhere, and stuck it on my Dock. So now I can make notes faster than I can on Windows by just clicking the icon on my Dock. As far as I know, Windows doesn't have anything this cool and won't in Longhorn either, though I hear Longhorn will feature some sort of scripting ability (hello, AppleScript).

Windows always has weird interfaces. Like on the "My Recent Documents" list, you get all your recent documents, but there's no item to "Clear History." On pretty much every other OS out there including MacOS, there's a "Clear History" item you can click to erase it right then and there. On Windows, you have to right-click the taskbar, go to Properties, go to Customize, then finally click Clear History. And for some reason, it pauses and takes a while to "reload" the Start menu. Suck

--"Uh, C# is a complete rip-off of Java, from the namespace structure to the syntax of the language. Taking Java code and converting it to C# is just a matter of making a few changes at the top of the source files and fixing a few minor differences."-- As I said, no clue ;) .NET is more than just C#, C# is only one of many programming languages that can be used. .NET is a programming platform, and currently much more powerful than Java as a programming platform.

Gee, why no RSS feeds on this site? Oh that's right, just because every major news & technology site has them & competeing browsers support it, if MICROSOFT doesn't have it, then the technology doesn't exist in the little MCSE's world. I'm loving Tiger with Spotlight! Hope your enjoying your animated little search doggy!

"As I said, no clue ;)" I'm a .NET/Java/Objective-C programmer, so I know what I'm talking about. ".NET is more than just C#, C# is only one of many programming languages that can be used." .NET is just a managed API framework that uses bytecode. Just like Java. The only difference is that the IL is specced so other languages can compile to it, but right now the only other one that matters is Visual Fred (I'm sorry, Visual Basic .NET). ".NET is a programming platform, and currently much more powerful than Java as a programming platform." I love the way you don't cite any reasons that make it more powerful than Java. Microsoft has told you it's better, and you accept it. You're like the marching zombie guys in the 1984 Mac commercial, listening to the talking head on the screen. As I said--which you didn't refute--you can take a Java source file, change some things at the top of the file (like namespaces), change a few minor syntax changes, and viola--you have a C# file. C# and .NET are nothing more than Microsoft's attempts to take away from the platform-independence of Java. Microsoft wants you to be solely dependent on their platform alone and play entirely by their rules, and clearly you're okay with that. The rest of us are tired of Microsoft stealing ideas, changing a few things around, and then having their fans cheer them on as innovators. Microsoft will be doing the same thing with WinFX, integrating it into Internet Explorer and attempting to create their own Web platform and force everyone to use it instead of open standards, effectively controlling the web and taking the power away from companies like Google. Enjoy your little animated search dog, indeed.

"love the way you don't cite any reasons that make it more powerful than Java." For example the API is more consistent than the Java API. The ASP.NET stuff is much more thought through than JSP. Java tries to get to the same level with the new JSF, but not quite there. "As I said--which you didn't refute--you can take a Java source file, change some things at the top of the file (like namespaces), change a few minor syntax changes, and viola--you have a C# file." There is a little more to that. Both APIs are almost the same in some places, but in others they differ in many things. There are not just syntax changes. One of the biggest advantages in C# is that it can call unmanaged code and use COM. Java can do such things too, but much harder to implement. WinFX will replace the win32 Api, I doubt it will be used as a web platform... I never cheered Microsoft as an innovator for making .NET. But I think it is nevertheless the best programming platform right now. If it is copied, so it is a great copy. And for Microsofts attempt to take away from the platform-independence of Java: What a stupid attempt would that be if they not even make the API available for other OSes?

"For example the API is more consistent than the Java API. The ASP.NET stuff is much more thought through than JSP. Java tries to get to the same level with the new JSF, but not quite there." No specific examples whatsoever. It appears that you're saying .NET is just a slightly improved Java rip-off. "There is a little more to that. Both APIs are almost the same in some places, but in others they differ in many things. There are not just syntax changes." No specific examples. Yes, there are a few changes here and there, but everything else is the same. Everything is an object. Objects inherit from a root object, no multiple inheritance, use of dot-notation, namespaces to divide the APIs. The list goes on and on and on. "One of the biggest advantages in C# is that it can call unmanaged code and use COM." Which ties it to Windows. Congratulations on fulfilling Microsoft's desires. "Java can do such things too, but much harder to implement." JNI is easy. "WinFX will replace the win32 Api, I doubt it will be used as a web platform..." Of course it will. Avalon and WinFX will be used to create a new web platform dependent on the .NET framework. The hell of IE-only web pages will increase threefold as everyone relies on Avalon and XAML to do their web apps. WinFX won't be replacing Win32. Win32 will never die because companies like Adobe, id Software, Valve, and everyone else aren't going to rewrite their apps in .NET code, sorry. "I never cheered Microsoft as an innovator for making .NET. But I think it is nevertheless the best programming platform right now. If it is copied, so it is a great copy." That's an opinion I can respect. My personal opinion is that Cocoa is far superior to .NET, particularly with the introduction of CoreData. "And for Microsofts attempt to take away from the platform-independence of Java" Java's platform-independence threatens Windows, just as Netscape and the web did (which spawned non-standard IE)

As I watched a brief Tiger overview presented by one of the Mac OS X product managers at the local Apple Store on Friday, I was impressed by these two hidden features: 1. After doing a Command-Control-D to display the definition, keep holding Command-Control and hover the mouse onto other words. Tiger will display definitions in a "live" manner like a tooltip. 2. In your spotlight search, type a qualifier such as: Yosemite kind:images Spotlight will only find "kind:images". Similarly, you can provide qualifiers for other file attributes. Microsoft simply doesn't think in these kinds of innovative ways. Microsoft would give you a six-dialog wizard to click through to get a dictionary definition. :) Today, the "Desktop Cleanup Wizard" suddenly came up in my face while I was trying to use one of the company computers. Annoying and hilarious.

RE: "What a stupid attempt would that be if they not even make the API available for other OSes?" Yeah, like I'm sure "Metro" will be available cross-platform too. Microsoft is scared sh**less that Adobe has a UNIX/LINUX/Mac/Windows document standard without ANY "extensions" that favor the Microsoft OS. Metro is a blatant attempt to crush that; once again at the consumer's expense. I'm so over MS.

Metro's never going to take off. PDF is too widespread and standard as a document format. If Adobe EVER feels threatened, they only have to do one thing and leave Windows users forever in the cold--make Photoshop and its related apps (including Macromedia's apps like Dreamweaver) Mac-only. That would be a pretty big blow to Microsoft Windows in the media industry, an area already dominated by Macs. The web dev industry would also get stung by no more Dreamweaver. This would only ever happen if Adobe felt really under the gun, of course. Metro will never take off.

"Gee, why no RSS feeds on this site? Oh that's right, just because every major news & technology site has them & competeing browsers support it, if MICROSOFT doesn't have it, then the technology doesn't exist in the little MCSE's world. " Up on top, there is a little button with "RSS" on it. Maybe if you click that... ;)

"Spotlight will only find "kind:images". Similarly, you can provide qualifiers for other file attributes. Microsoft simply doesn't think in these kinds of innovative ways. Microsoft would give you a six-dialog wizard to click through to get a dictionary definition. :) " The MSN desktop search has a similar syntax for attributes. There you can also do searches like author:Bill and stuff like that. Or writing "=note" into the box and hitting enter will start Notepad. There is also the possibility to create own shortcuts. But I have to admit that this really feels quite "un-microsoftish". And though release should be April, it still is in the beta state. I think Microsoft products never get out of beta these days ;)

I think your views about 'Longhorn' are very interesting and I would like to make two points: 1. How difficult is it to build a basic operating system that is architected with modularity in mind? Such a design would allow users to add those optional features that they require and not have to pay (in money, time to execute and unreliability) for the features they require. When I was writing code for a living I stressed a modular design with well documented hooks and message passing so that additions and deletions of functions was made much easier. 2. I'm not a M$ basher or Linux evangelist, BUT, has anyone tried Ubuntu lately? I have an interest in Linux (I'm retired and probably won't be able to afford Longhorn) but to date no distribution has got close to Win XP (may be Xandros was an exception). Ubuntu 5.04 is VERY good, not perfect but about 95% as good as Win XP (a printer driver for my Canon laser printer and software to match TextPad, MyInfo and pretty Good Solitaire and it will close the gap). I enjoy your articles. Regards, Peter

http://www.harding.edu/USER/fmccown/WWW/java1_5_csharp_comparison.html