Reader Comments

They look fine to me. I don't see the big deal.

Yawn!

who cares they are not even final production versions.

Who knows why they're doing this, but I never expected anything big and new UI wise from a pre-beta version. Any final UI stuff will be added in in the last month of testing before it goes gold I figure. The cool thing is that some people have said you can run this build fine on a 1ghz system. It seems the importent thing at this point is a new video card with full DX9 support if you want the full eye candy, but that could change in a year. Though I think ATi's next vid card already has longhorn support, WGF 1.0 etc.

Maybe MS doesn't want anybody to see what it's accomplished (or not) so far ??? or... Heaven forbid... Apple may see them and copy something :-)

Microsoft is either (a) embarrassed by how their proposed UI looks or (b) doesn't want Apple to copy it. I'm guessing it's (a) since Apple's UI looks much nicer.

Wow. Those screen shots are...well, "underwhelming" doesn't begin to describe it. "Looks like s h i t DOES, though. 10 years since Windows '95, and Microsoft still can't create a decent icon. Maybe they should talk to the Catholic Church. They have lots of eXperience w/icons. Hey, I'm just tryin' to help...

there need to be more people like paul no longer putting up with the crap that MS issues. nice attitude paul, hopefully MS understand that they wont get away with anything lukewarm

Typical MS. Their product looks like crap and they are embarrassed. Do you people really believe that the finished product will look much different than these shots? It won't! Review previous Windows versions and see for yourself.

When is the last time MicroShaft has come up with an original OS? 95 was the biggest change in years. Everything since then has been a glazed version of that. 10 years later and it still looks the same. And still has bugs and holes. That's sad. Hell they may as well ship it now. It's crap now and will be crap next year.

But is the second gallery showing screenshots from aero glass? Anyway, all those screenshots are very very very very disappointing, actually very poor and ugly graphics...

Yeah Paul! Tell 'em you're a JOURNALIST and not some silly BLOGGER! That'll give ya some serious street cred!

hey do us a favor, can you ask them why the sidebar was removed when there are these widescrene laptops perfect for it? at least make it an option, i found out that the power TILE is stlil there, must be teh codebase switch and they are still working on the sidebar n such, dont let us down microsoft.

MS's UI efforts have been a sore point with me for ages. XP *partly* looks new, partly looks like various versions of Windows going back to 3.1 (some of those icons showing up on my 24bpp display are hideous). They rarely ever freshen the thing up (Royale was nice, but too isolated to particular OS flavors), and I have yet to see a UI bug fixed in any hotfix since Win2K (just to rattle off a few glaring bugs -> indeterminate window focus code where sometimes, it's orange flashes and other times, it's a window from another app taking focus...RDP is terrible about this. IE's autocomplete dropdown has this unreal 1 second lag between click and commit. Maximized windows sometimes have their restore size set to the monitor resolution). These things are very easy to spot (easier than the myriad of security and app compatibility problems), yet they remain in the UI for 5 years OR MORE! Hell, look at the time diff between PDC and WinHEC builds...and icons STILL show up heavily pixellated (lower-left hand corner of Explorer) I just have a comprehensive lack of faith in MS about taking their UI seriously.

Perhaps it's because only about 1% of the PC population has a widescreen display?

Looks fine to me for a beta version.

It DOES look like total crap, but Microsoft made it look that way, so why are they so ashamed? The Start menu looks like it has icons from at least at 3 different Windows versions. What confuses me is that they have designed some new (damn ugly) icons, and this has just made things look worse because what little consistency that there was in XP is now lost. Microsoft are notorious for being slap dash and lazy with their presentation in release software (every version is riddled with ancient 8 bit Windows 3.1 icons, messy folder stuctures with upper and lower case worthy of a Ransom note) so I don't know why at this stage of development they are wasting time making new icons and mixing them with ancient icons from Windows 95. Either re-do the interface properly, or just leave it alone. Either option would look better than the dog's dinner that they have presented at WinHEC.

Well, just want to say it's great that you allow us to look @ what's going at winhec 2005. Especialy longhorn build, hope it get's better in my opinion.

Please, Paul, don't take down the screenshots - that would be just daft - it's just not the right way to treat the press.

Hey, Paul, remember that Longhorn preview you wrote a while back for the Supersite? I remember checking the article the next day and seeing a couple of images removed, like the "please enter your password to run this app" dialog and the sync app. I had those hosted on my site, and Microsoft sent my host a legal letter. I'd keep the images up. They didn't tell you about any of this. I guess this means no gallery 3. :( Personally, I'm really disappointed in Longhorn now. Not much appears to have changed from the last beta release.

I guess only Apple is "correct" in trying to keep things under wraps till steve feels its time.

Windows--for playing videogames. Like "The Sims." Macs--for getting real work done.

Its still an early beta version, why are you all so bothered about its GUI at this stage?

Windows is weak, Longhorn will be cosmetic upgrade; Apple can deliver killer blow to Microsoft: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/5589/ The Mac users are laughing heartily at us! And I, for one, plan to join them. Buh 'bye, Microsoft Windows, hello Mac OS X Tiger!!! I'm sick of waiting forever for nothing.

"The Mac users are laughing heartily at us! And I, for one, plan to join them. Buh 'bye, Microsoft Windows, hello Mac OS X Tiger!!! I'm sick of waiting forever for nothing." I sense a lot of frustration here concerning the pace of development of Longhorn. Let's hope that Microsoft doesn't blow their announced launch in late 2006. If they do, there will be a lot of disillusionment.

who cares they are not even final production versions. ------ Denial, denial, denial

"The Mac users are laughing heartily at us! And I, for one, plan to join them. Buh 'bye, Microsoft Windows, hello Mac OS X Tiger!!! I'm sick of waiting forever for nothing." Exactly. Every single "revolutionary" feature Longhorn had is already available in Tiger. In addition, most of Longhorn's features have been pared back, and the rest are being backported to Windows XP anyway. Longhorn is going to be a really, really tough sell, especially considering the bizarre system requirements. Microsoft has had no coherent future plan since the release of NT4. That's why we had to suffer through Windows 98, Windows ME, and Windows XP. 2000 was the only release they got just right. I've tried OS X Tiger, and it is incredible. Mac users really ARE laughing over all this. Don't kid yourselves--the computer industry turns on a dime, and if Microsoft flops with Longhorn, there's nothing stopping them from dying out within ten years. APIs and language technology have advanced to the point where software developers no longer need to rely so much on a specific platform, in this case Win32. They needed to hit one out of the park with this beta. The fact it is disappointing is only compounded now by the way they're shutting down images posted of it. At least Apple tells you beforehand, "don't even think about it."

"I sense a lot of frustration here concerning the pace of development of Longhorn. Let's hope that Microsoft doesn't blow their announced launch in late 2006. If they do, there will be a lot of disillusionment." I've been saying this all along. Longhorn will be out in early 2007, not late 2006 as Microsoft claims. There hasn't been a Windows release that wasn't delayed at least once. Expect it now so you're not disappointed later. Microsoft used to use phony release dates to kill the buzz on competing products, but in this day and age it's not working as well. I don't know if that's why they're so set on the 2006 date, but it's just not a realistic date, not if Longhorn is going to kickstart the company like they're hoping. Because Microsoft waited so terribly long to let Windows XP circulate, the Windows market has settled on it, and now Microsoft is in the position of competing with itself as well as "hip" competitors like Apple stepping on their turf with the iPod and using that to springboard Mac sales. Consider Office 2000. Can anyone actually offer a valid reason why a business should upgrade from Office 2000 to any of the newer versions? The same with Windows XP. There's not a lot Longhorn can offer to revitalize Windows. Even desktop search is already availble in both Tiger and as add-ons for Windows XP.

"I guess only Apple is "correct" in trying to keep things under wraps till steve feels its time." I think that one problem with Microsoft is that their managers too often go overboard with hyping up (or they probably call it "marketing") a product far before release. As a result, they often set themselves up for a fall when reality sets in. There is much to be said for the Apple's way of trying to keep thing under wraps until it's ready for release.

"I think that one problem with Microsoft is that their managers too often go overboard with hyping up (or they probably call it "marketing") a product far before release. As a result, they often set themselves up for a fall when reality sets in." They do this to kill competitor buzz. "Why should I buy this when Microsoft is telling me their new thing is out in two years?" So the competitor goes out of business, and then Microsoft delays their product to actually finish it on time. This worked very, very well in the 90s, but it doesn't work at all now because the Internet maintains its own buzz machine and ignores Microsoft. Look at how many positive Apple articles there have been this year. It's incredible. These kinds of Microsoft business tactics are why a lot of people are frustrated that so many users settle for Microsoft products without seeking superior alternatives. Microsoft has always been an incredible software application company. They started as one for the Mac, in fact. But their operating systems have always, always sucked. Windows is only the dominant platform not because of its own quality, but because of the quanitity of commodity x86 machines in the world that needed a cheap and fast GUI platform. But computing is maturing and now people are wanting to evolve the ways they interact with their computers. If Longhorn flops, a critical point will be reached where people will realize they shouldn't be running an OS that dumps them with an administrator account in the year 2005, contains a list of open ports that hackers exploit monthly, and requires "Patch Tuesdays" to keep from getting hacked. I mean, it just goes on and on. Longhorn is their opportunity to fix everything. But as this excellent article points out (http://www.cnet.com/4520-6033_1-6213658-1.html), Microsoft bit off way more than they can chew, and Longhorn will be strictly a visual upgrade because the technologies will be backported to XP anyway.

Paul - Is anyone talking about Next Generation Secure Computing Base - or is it also dead. Microsoft is consistently over promising and under delivering in my opinion. From WinHEC, I would like to know more about hardware is advancing security, reliability, and scalability. The graphical interface is not at the top of the wish list for many of us. I would rather have a system that easily achieves years of stability than a system that looks sexy. Others will suggest this is possible on non Microsoft platforms. Perhaps they are right~. In addition, I think Microsoft’s behavior was rude in regards to your posting of screen shots. This is panicky behavior in my opinion. It’s very unusual for any company to upset their evangelists. What is going on out there? Wow!

Paul - Is anyone talking about Next Generation Secure Computing Base - or is it also dead. Microsoft is consistently over promising and under delivering in my opinion. From WinHEC, I would like to know more about hardware is advancing security, reliability, and scalability. The graphical interface is not at the top of the wish list for many of us. I would rather have a system that easily achieves years of stability than a system that looks sexy. Others will suggest this is possible on non Microsoft platforms. Perhaps they are right~. In addition, I think Microsoft’s behavior was rude in regards to your posting of screen shots. This is panicky behavior in my opinion. It’s very unusual for any company to upset their evangelists. What is going on out there?

I don't think it has anything to do with Apple. If Apple wanted a live build they could easily get it. I think it is about impressions on consumers. I must say it looks like a drab theme of XP. I feel that longhorn will be a "Windows 98" type of release- Same as XP but just a few visual alterations. Basically MS has commented they plan to take all the nice new featues out of Longhorn and make it a XP visual upgrade. I am not sure Longhorn will sell what MS expects. The big problem MS runs into is backwards compatability. That is what slows advances, but it is nessisary for obvious reasons. My question is why release longhorn in 2006? Why not wait until 2008-9 and include all the cool new features that were promised instead of putting out an OS just for the sake of putting one out every 3 years or so. Lognhorn....looks very uninspiring at this stage.

I saved everyone of them Paul. I also noticed they removed the image of the true aero interface in the Bill Gates Keynote presentation on slide 21. TY

Well, they're on my HD now. So does this mean that we're all gonna have to sign NDAs for Longhorn Beta and the RCs?

Gee I find it hilarious that everyone's bashing the Longhorn UI. Why are you surprised? It's Microsoft. They aren't artists or designers. I'm using a beautiful operating system... OS X. And when OS X 10.5 comes out at the same time Longhorn does, Apple will still be years ahead.

To add to your miriad of bug i got one too... if you use the UNZIP feature of WinXP PRO and click on next to do the unzip function, the next button dont disable and if you reclick it it will restart the unzip. reclick, restart, reclick restart... mouhhaaha i have nothing to do! :D

I love the new Longhorn theme, can it work with XP? I want it for my desktop, it just rocks.

"I love the new Longhorn theme, can it work with XP? I want it for my desktop, it just rocks." Are you kidding? :) Even Apple employees were circulating those Longhorn screenshots with the title "What is wrong with this picture?" In case you can't tell, the shadow cast by the Recycle Bin runs in the opposite direction of every other shadow cast by every other icon--including its own icon text.

How is it Microsoft can make a system look so blech, anyway? Mac OS X, in some ways, is less fancy, yet it is so much more striking. They just don't get it in Redmond.

M$ shouldn't be embarrassed, they should be terrified.

Incoming Slashdot...

"I guess only Apple is "correct" in trying to keep things under wraps till steve feels its time." Uhhh.. when Apple has a big tech weekend, etc, they assume that pretty much everything is going to be photographed and spread all over the internet.. we're seeing shots of a HUGE WinHEC show and MS is surprised that people are taking pics of the Demo?!?!? Software that is supposed to be relevant to 95% of the computing public?! Apple does not go back and ask people to take down images of a freakin MacWorld show.. !!!! Stealing software and sharing it with your buddies on the other hand.. tee hee

Embarassing! I would want those screenshots taken down as well if I were Micro$oft. Longhorn is a Longwait for basically a few updates to XP and one supposed major GUI update, when in fact all this update will be, to the end user, is shadowing and some pointless transparency in the title bar! Get a real OS, try Mac OS X!!!

"Gee I find it hilarious that everyone's bashing the Longhorn UI. Why are you surprised? It's Microsoft" If you scroll to the top of the screen there's a pic of a guy called Paul Thurrott, who last year claimed that what he saw of LH made Mac OS look childish and out-of-date. You can go read about it on the WinSupersite. He, with all his inside knowledge and connections, hyped up LH thusly. This is why we expected BIG things from MS, with their.. god only knows untold billions in revenue... The 3d interface we were expecting.. is nowhere to be seen.. its as if they cut features from LH .. oh yeah.. we already knew that.. Sidebar's gone? What's the matter, annoyed that Apple didn't adopt it?

No kidding, this version of windoze looks like crap, it is awful... Ballmer is the worst thing that happened to MS.

I believe there is a good reason behind this, but I can't think of anything. Maybe they are worried about their innovation being "stolen" by competetors. Maybe they just don't want to be open about their products. I don't know. But it does sounds trange. As Paul has metioned here, this is the first time Microsoft has ever done this. I'm not sure what is going on, but I'm certain there is a reason behind this.

Will I get sued if these are in my proxy cache?

I"m always amazed at how M$ spends so much time running around sending threatening letters to people rather then developing something new/original that some of us might actually get excited about......

"I hope Microsoft has surprises up their sleeves. This has the makings of a train wreck. I'll have more on that later." How much later?

To me it is clear that MS is doing this as a publicity stunt. What better way to advertise a product than to "ban" it. I suggest that far more people will check out the screen shots now that it has been slash-dotted.

They don't want these screen shots posted because of how much Longhorn is looking like KDE. I'm not saying that to be a smart ***...apparently some accusations from open source advocates have already been made...nice control panel :)

Looks like my Linux box has for YEARS. Of course Mac has looked like this for a long time as well. Will Microsoft ever actually innovate? No.. it's not profitable.. afterall, they can wait for others to innovate and copy the ideas! (Funny that they don't want anyone to "copy" screenshots of those "ideas")

There's only one reason MS wants the screenshots down now and didn't mention it before. The response at WinHEC 2005 has been so negative, echoed in these posts, that MS decided to pull them down. They had to show it to get responses, but now, seeing what they got, they don't want them out in public view. IMO, this is sad. I agree that MS either makes substantive changes to the functioning of the OS or makes these cosmetic changes free as an upgrade. This is a skin to XP. If it takes years to create transparency on the desktop, forget the transparency, please.

damn... well the UI actually appeared to get worse in that build for some reason o.O

A new paint job on an old Pinto

uh it's not the final ui so all this whining is typical wahmbulance patrolling. hell, most of you are windows users anyway. put your money where your mouth is and get something else.

Umn Yawn is right. Looks like a mix between Windows XP and Mac OS.

It really does not matter what we say. We can say it looks like dog cheese but MS will do is surround themselves with the most yes-man, gung-ho butt buddies that they could find to say anything nice about their OS at the time of release. I am a windows user....for games. I get far more work done with my Linux/unix boxes and my Mac. Windows never evolved far enough to be useful...but that would require them to ship a product that worked without a dozen SP's to shore it up. I tried to support them in teh past, but I have to use what works. I am not a Macboy or a wintrasher. I just have a brain.

Looks sorta like a cross between the WinXP interface and KDE.

Looks like windows xp with a few differnet colours. Hopefully by the time the real one comes out it will be much better then xp is.

It appears as if they are trying to look as good as Apple OS X but they throw in enough ugliness so you will still know it is Windows. Not even close guys! Try again.

did that screen shot of IE, in gallery 2 make it look a lot like safari??? I admit to not being a MS fan, but they have $35B in the bank and this is the best they can do. I hope all of the MS fans out there start praying to their god(s) of choice to help MS get this taken care of, cause this disaster is going to take a mirac le to fix.... or a monopoly.

That's why I quit using Winblows

"IE's autocomplete dropdown has this unreal 1 second lag between click and commit." I ******* HATE that. Yet another reason to use Firefox.

I say again that this is the developer preview. The UI is not finished although I have some pretty cool effects activated with various reg tricks and drivers. All the animations are running and glass is working smoothly. We have just begun. It's going to be an awesome op system. You'll see.

This is absolutely the worst abomination of a GUI since the first version of Amiga Workbench! MacOS 1.0 (released in 1984) had a FAR more consistent look and feel than this POS. They have taken the most reviled UI feature among Mac users of OS X, the "brushed metal look", and attempted to imitate it. And failed miserably. I also note the inconsistent iconography, including icons that have been around since W 3.1 (!!!) What amazes me, as a Mac user for over 20 years (and an XP slave at work), is the vitriol that exists on this board regarding M$ lack-of-direction. I have never seen so much Mac-SUPPORT and ENVY on a "Windows" site in my life! M$ better straighten up, or THEY are the ones that are breeding the next big batch of "switchers" (their fake 'reverse-switcher' ad of 3 years ago notwithstanding!). So, my question is: WHAT are you people WAITING for?!? You KNOW what the outcome is going to be. You've been discussing it here. Switch now, and be happy. Life is short. Windows is a zero-sum dead end. PowerMac G5s are at 2.7GHz Duals (and don't tell me how you can BUILD some white-box, no-support, no-warranty POS Windows machine for $2.00 that will blow the doors off of a G5 tower). It STILL runs Windows. And NO amount of HARDWARE makes THAT a recipe for continued happiness... -Doug

funny how everyone complains over silly window dresssing when the real issues continue to be under the hood. will x64 longhorn still pagefile into eternity on a 16gb system? will ie7 really conform to IETF standards? who cares about a video-game style UI when the operating system itself is progressively unstable and simple to crack open? microsoft should look to its roots for hints on how to lead its future. at this pace, and after having dumped its fanatic visual basic following, the writing is on the wall. 2007 is the year of unix and its variants. soon a new language will come and carry off the jettisoned visual basic developers. then and only then, will microsoft wonder what went wrong.

"Someone might copy their interface..." It is to laugh. So what part would competitors copy? I.E. where's the innovation? It's been ten years since Win95 and from a usability standpoint it's basically the same old OS with a few new twirly bits that now requires an order-of-magnitude faster hardware for acceptable performance and the interface grows more inconsistent every release. Come on, MSFT! You've ****** away hundreds of millions in R&D and the best you can do is make the windows twirl if the user has a high-end graphics card? Come to think of it, I'd rather see screenshots of Glakowsky's Newton. At least it is innovative.

Well, I can see another reason why MS wouldn't want those screenshots to get out. They're dead ringers for one of the cheesier old KDE themes.

As an MS user, it's frustrating that every time they release a new version of the OS the UI changes its look and feel. Same thing with the apps: MS Word ToC used to be , now it's . How much time do we spend collectively stumbling around trying to find things which have been moved?

I don't think the UI is the least bit impressive anyway and sure as hell wouldn't steal to use for something of my own.

Why would you want it to look vastly different? If it did, there would be a fair learning curve to the new UI. Enhancing the existing look with features like AA on window corners, transparency, windows as textures, etc. I like the glow effect around the restore/minimze/close buttons, and it looks like there is transparency, which you can see in that same shot. And there was that one demo where they used 3D acceleration to have things being dragged all over the screen like a waving sheet of paper. Yes, the skin sucks, but this is still a long way away from release, so they're probably still working on the final look. And if you don't like it I am sure there will be plenty of 3rd party skins for Longhorn, just like there are for XP.

Microsoft prolly didnt inovate because they feel that since they're in the lead (OS, including I.E), tons of money were coming so why change something 'succesful' (for them, at least), right? Now Apple is inovating to try to get more people switching and I think it's working.. I'm thinking about switching as well.. Like the guy said previously, "why wait so long for nothing?" Tiger has all the great features and looks so damn good, yet is so powerful. And I'm not a fanboy either. I mean look at the facts, this is a no-brainer to me =]

Yeah, you go, Paul! Boy, you are such a tuffy! Who'd have thought someone who makes their living in Microsoft's pocket would ever pretend to stand up to them? Wow. I bet they were trembling when it came time to tell you to take those pics down, even tho you are a pathetic lapdog of Microsoft. I don't think anyone familiar with your work of rewording MS press releases for your "news" site was really in doubt that OF COURSE you would back down in a split second. And you dumbasses who view this *** as a "journalist": get a clue.

Regarding the much-detested grey color scheme: As many people have already pointed out, this is an early version. My guess based on the style of what we're seeing in the screenshots is that the final color scheme is going to look a lot like MSN 9 (glassy white and more subdued blues than in XP.) Having said that, I'm now going to barricade my door before Microsoft's lawyers storm my house.

You mean Microsoft has not filed that patent on the Double-Click yet?????? BTW, that stuff about unfiled patents is bull. They can't go and give out copies of something showing their supposed patented materials without NDA's and then tell those people not to tell anyone else. The cat is out of the bag. If there ever was one, but that's another issue. I would have their lawyers site their legal right to force removal of the screenshots. And please post those so that we can see what's going on too.

Microsoft prolly didnt inovate because they feel that since they're in the lead (OS, including I.E), tons of money were coming so why change something 'succesful' (for them, at least), right? Now Apple is inovating to try to get more people switching and I think it's working.. I'm thinking about switching as well.. Like the guy said previously, "why wait so long for nothing?" Tiger has all the great features and looks so damn good, yet is so powerful. And I'm not a fanboy either. I mean look at the facts, this is a no-brainer to me =]

Nothing in any of those screeshots look like anything that needs to be patented. Stupid start button still, min/max/close buttons look the same and in the same spot, they are just embarrased that they showed this, and everyone thinks it sucks. And for the past article I read that said "Apple is copying Microsoft" is bullcrap. Nothing on any of those screenshots look remotly close to Apples' UI

looky, looky, NOTEPADS !

"Of course Mac has looked like this for a long time as well." I don't remember Mac OS looking this ugly. Even from a usability point of view this looks terrible! What's up with these tiny Min/Max/Close buttons? Even the transparency is totally overdone and makes the titles hard to read. The whole interface is totally cluttered... I guess I could go on for a while here. The point though is that MS has no uniform philosophy behind their UIs, and apparently not even behind their software as a whole. And if they keep changing it from ground up with every new built, the result will be as horrible as every Windows version preceding it.

hahahahahaahaha

Regarding the much-detested grey color scheme: As many people have already pointed out, this is an early version. My guess based on the style of what we're seeing in the screenshots is that the final color scheme is going to look a lot like MSN 9 (glassy white and more subdued blues than in XP.) Having said that, I'm now going to barricade my door before Microsoft's lawyers storm my house.

I agree with Pirillo... It looks like $%^&!!! ocomik www.ocomik.net

I don't see anything remarkable about the Longhorn UI. It looks rather dull.

so i looked at the screenshots and quite frankly they look a hot mess. If i wanted a Mac UI, i would buy a Mac, cmon guys, please innovate the UI we can blow those smug Mac guys away for once and all, but as it looks right now, its really disappointing.

Hey! Where'd that huge, stupid cow clock go from previous builds? Now THAT's innovation, baby!

Us Mac guys have a lot to be smug about today... ;-) -Doug

"When is the last time MicroShaft has come up with an original OS? 95 was the biggest change in years." Those who look under the cover know that a whole lot has changed. Windows 2000 was almost as large of a change as 95 was, but you wouldn’t not know that by looking at the GUI. I like eye candy just like anyone, but once the novelty has warn off it really does not effect how useful the OS is, not what the default desktop looks like.

It's a publicity stunt, they are just trying to get more attention, even if it's BAD attention.. they are so stupid.

Hmmm, Gnome and Enlightenment running on Linux looked better then Longhorn 5 years ago...

If Microsoft wants to preserve its ability to file patents on a technology, it shouldn't disclose that technology by giving it away to thousands of people -- including dozens of journalists. Imagine -- those journalists might want to report on the software they've been given.

Paul Thurrott: "Microsoft has provided its explanation. What it boils down to is that there may be certain technologies in the Longhorn Developer Preview build?for which Microsoft has not filed patent applications.... I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places. They don't want that to happen to Longhorn." Message to Paul: Based on the popular opinion about the screenshots expressed by all of us posters here on your web site, Paul, tell Microsoft that they have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Not going to register to post one reply. Longhorn in its current state does indeed look ugly. But then so does retail copies of all versions of Windows. Yawn. Old news.

right click all the screenshots and save target before they disappear forever!

Leave it to MS... I'm a Mac guy who also uses Windows. I like XP. I wish they would fix its bugs. I could care less about the eye-candy, that's what the Mac is for. Also...what's the "sidebar" anyway?

I think it's great you didn't immediately cower and back down. MS muscle is trying to silence the release after the barn doors are open. Too littl, too late. Also, did anyone notice that the explorer "find as you type" is a direct rip-off of osx? Check out panther or tiger. Ever since the first windows, MS keeps copying all of Mac's best UI designs, and badly, I might add.

Its quite possible MS may indeed have something much better looking now, and want to keep it secret so they can patent it. If this is true, they are certainly going the wrong way about building hype. Although not quite as bad as, this comes close to plex and classic style in terms of ugliness. I do hope they do have something better in store, because a lot of people are losing faith in ms. Looks like we'll all have to wait til sept for the next conference to find out.

In screenshot lh_5048_26_11.jpg it is a shot of "Computer", however can anyone spot the mistake? .... Well, the column headings suggest this should be detail view, however it is in grouped view! doh!

Looks like winder XP with a theme.. wooo hoooo

"Microsoft has always been an incredible software application company. They started as one for the Mac, in fact." This is just not true. Microsoft's very first product was a BASIC interpreter for Altair produced by Bill Gates and Paul Allen. That was in 1975. The Apple I came out on April 1, 1976. Microsoft didn't ship the first Z-80 SoftCard until 1980. They didn't release BASIC for the Apple until 1984.

Well, besides the rounded corners from MacOSX and the Unix layout and Icons, combined with what we see already in XP, that sure is some revolutionary stuff. Oh wait, that was all there was.

Hey you wanna know what MS is doing? They're showing us crap on purpose. You know why? They wanna build controversy around Longhorn. Microsoft is a giant. They have plenty of people working on it, and they've spent time on this. When Longhorn does come out, it's gonna look way different. MS knows what everyone's saying about them and Apple. Mark my words....you'll see

The screenshots are bleak and depressing. Isn't it bad enough that we all have to sit in our little cubicles without this additional reminder of our bland, gray professional lives?

and when the real interface is initiates you mac boys are gonna be real sore us wintel nuts r gonna laugh at you so much......

what is wrong with XP? M$ afraid to lay off some people?

I dont see anything really new. And a few things i really dont like at all. And they want us to pay for this when it comes out? ha. hahahahaha. yeah right. And if this was my review site. I'd erase all microsoft products and reviews from it totally. Don't want to get sued now do ya.

Ouch. The Longhorn project appears out of control? This can't be a good thing for Microsoft's future. If it takes five years to produce XP's successor, and it's a turkey ... well, I imagine that Apple and Linux would benefit. Not that I'm against either of those outcomes.

Too late. If they are really concerned about future patents, and believe that these pictures might provide prior art...the cat is already out of the bag. It's enough that something has been available to the public for it to be usable as prior art

*blinks* I see a lot of people complaining about pixellated icons and nothing new to the UI: Question is, so what? Do you constantly look at these tiny icons in the lower right hand corner of IE? Other than today, I can't remember the last time I cared to look down there. It seems people are picking on the smallest of things for reason that they feel they need to. On the UI: What do you want from them? What can they change to make it meet your inanae approval? Simple fact is, so far as I can tell: The UI simply works, and if it works, don't fix it. Has Apple drastically changed their UI? Not that I could really see the last time I poked a mac. Same bar at the top, same icons on the side, 1 new scroll bar-thing at the bottom. That bottom bar is the only "big" change I've seen since I first used a mac back in pre-school.*shrug*

much better screenshots here... http://www.winbeta.org/articles.php?action=show&id=15&perpage=1&pagenum=4 still much work to do tho.

omg. it looks like... WINDOWS. who cares.

>> Microsoft didn't ship the first Z-80 SoftCard until 1980. They didn't release BASIC for the Apple until 1984. Bzzzzt! WRONG! Thanx for playing... Microsoft wrote the Apple ][ Floating-Point BASIC, called Applesoft. The first versions were released on CASSETTE TAPE in late 1977. Steve Wozniak wrote the Integer BASIC interpreter for the Apple 1 and the Apple ][ (btw, the copy of my Apple 1's Integer BASIC even knows the verbs COLOR= , GR, and PLOT, but doesn't know what to do with them, showing that Woz was even working on Apple ][ prototypes back in 1976...) Thanx for the Apple 1 Release Date. I had forgotten the exact date. I guess my Apple 1, which dates from May, 1976, could well be one of the first 100 units (which were NOT serial-numbered). Hmmmm. Maybe it IS time for an eBay auction... ;-) -Doug

Why is anyone even discussing this build of Longhorn? It's a build that's aimed at device driver writers. Most of the end-user features that will appear in Longhorn have NOT been added to this build. This build does not reflect the current state of Longhorn development and does not provide an accurate assessment of such.

Unreal. It's now 2005 and Windows still can't calculate folder sizes. Even though each icon is now large enough to fill the screen of my first GUI machine (which could calculate folder sizes, btw).

True, it is a driver writers build. I think a lot of people are concerned that the interface isnt going to be much better than this, but like you said, all eye candy was removed from this build to allow the developers to write their drivers. Its not intended as an all squeaky clean, flashy lights interface

Paul, have you considered Ubuntu? You can post SCREENSHOTS, shoot you can post screenshots of the CODE if you want to. Seriously, why do people put up with this crap. Is Windows really worth it?!

BTW, Microsoft DID release a GUI-based non-line-numbered BASIC for the Mac in 1984. They mysteriously pulled it as a product when Apple released System 7.0, after getting all the way to Release 3.x of their BASIC. One year later, Visual BASIC for Windows came on the scene. Wanna guess what IT looked like? To this day, M$ REFUSES to 're-port' what they now call 'Visual BASIC' BACK to WHERE THEY FIRST DEVELOPED IT. -Doug

Looks like WinXP with different colors. I bet those colors are getting patented.

"XP *partly* looks new, partly looks like various versions of Windows going back to 3.1 " well duh... Thats the whole point. To increase adoption make something look new but familar. Screenshots look good to me.

that's the interface they want to protect? i'll stick with os x, thanks

What a crock. They showed more at PDC 2003 than in this release. Has nothing to do with patents, everything to do with not making ANY progress since last year's WinHEC release - in fact, regressing somewhat.

Wait, wait, wait... MS's reasoning is, "This is our stuff, it looks like ****, but we don't want anyone copying our *******UI, so you have to take down the *******UI picks." Does that some it up? If it looks like ****, why the F*CK would ANYONE WANT to copy it?!?!? O.o It's this like of circular argument that is going to get them swallowed up in some cataclysmic earthquake. We can only hope. And the comment about someone worrying about Apple copying them? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ROTFLCOPTERWTFOKBBQKTHXBAI!11!1!1!!1

Who cares anyway what Microsoft's interface looks like. They're gonna push it to customers no matter how it looks. And we will love it.

funny enough, it looks like they've stolen most of their ideas. Seriously, the only 'innovative' thing I saw there was boxes that change colors when you mouse over them- unix and others have had that for years. Otherwise, it looks like the non-pg version of xp.

Boy, what a bunch of whiners! Maybe you should all consider buying Macs. Tiger comes out tomorrow!

At least it appears that we will still have access to those most innovative MS applications: Wordpad, Notepad, and Paint . . .

Paul, do you have any screen shots of the EULA that will come with Longhorn? I'm sure it will be just as horrible as XP's EULA. How many more rights are users going to click away before they say enough is enough? Microsoft gives a whole new name to CONTROL-FREAK!

Sooo they don't want to post screenshots because they're afraid of corporate espionage? Wouldn't a spy use the resources from the actual (and fully available) beta instead of measily low-res screenshots to do their thing?

"Tiger comes out tomorrow!" Right, where's longhorn? How many OSX releases have their been since XP again? Face it, Microsoft is milking all of the morons that still use their products and will continue to do so until you all wake up to it. That's their business model, and it always has been.

This sucks. This site has become _less useful_ to me now that you've taken the screenshots down.

"uh it's not the final ui" Then why did they make these images available in the first place? I was under the impression that they were trying to generate a positive buzz at the show. Let me tell you, pulling features and displaying images of a half-baked UI ain't gonna cut it.

If it took them this many YEARS to come out with this crapola, I have no faith that they can pull off something "revolutionary" in the few remaining months to September's Beta 1. As far as I'm concerned, they blew it already. For a $499 Mac Mini, there is no way I won't be switching to Tiger rather than waiting indefinitely for promises with nothing substantial to show for it.

Why would you want it to look vastly different? If it did, there would be a fair learning curve to the new UI. --- That's why people are calling it SP3. Microsoft is going to pour hundreds of millions to market this thing because they expect EVERYONE to get this software. This software is supposed to fix EVERYTHING about WIndows, and push Windows ahead of Apple... Again, this, graphically, was supposed to embarrass Apple.. so far, Apple is just bouncing off the walls with glee: April 29th Tiger is out.

A thousand dollars worth?

Hey you wanna know what MS is doing? They're showing us crap on purpose. You know why? They wanna build controversy around Longhorn. Microsoft is a giant. They have plenty of people working on it, and they've spent time on this. When Longhorn does come out, it's gonna look way different. MS knows what everyone's saying about them and Apple. Mark my words....you'll see ------------------ LMFAO... woah.. man.. your temperature's running pretty high... SO MS is throwing its own tech conference, lying to its developers just to fool .... COMPETITORS? Oh yeah Apple with the global marketshare of about 2%.. that's why MS is botching the whole show on purpose... Denial denial denial..

MS not only is incapable writing software but are idiotic as well.....

All the complaining about a UI that is not aero and was simply somthing provided so the developers have something to work with, some people need to relax.

Wait a minute... when someone criticizes the look of the screenshots, the counterargument is that they are not representative of what the product will be, it's only a build for hardware developers, yada yada yada... but now the argument for pulling them is that they contain innovative patent pending stuff that has to be kept quiet? Why give the build out at WinHEC then? Cat's out of the bag anyway, those jpegs will be on the internet forever, if there was something in those images they wanted to patent, well it just got "disclosed" to the public. You can't un-ring the bell.

paul you asshol_e what cra_p coverage!!! no pictures because microsoft says so. what's this then you don't want them to cut you off, you being the only things you care about. What's the point in having a site with no coverage at all, no pictures! Just so you can keep all the secrets to yourself. You know if you miss the scoops (which is all people come here for anyway) you'll stop seeing people comming. Shi_thead!

Come on Paul. You know better. UI unprotected? Microsoft won the landmark case against Apple and Lotus which disallowed the copyrighting and patenting of UI. It's a lie. And the best comment so far has been: "If the press were posting positive comments, there would be no retraction of the screenshots." So true, so true.

To those that think Apple would steal UI ideas from the beta, when was the last case against Apple from M$ for stealing visual patents ? However in the other direction M$ has been done for stealing many visual "look & feels" from Apple. What a joke of a reason.

I actually think the design is nice. It's clean, small close/maximize/minimize buttons though, they should make those bigger

"and when the real interface is initiates you mac boys are gonna be real sore us wintel nuts r gonna laugh at you so much......" Yeah, when we're on OS X 10.5 or later, with more features, and speed increases for older hardware. Please, name me one Windows release that has ever sped up older machines when they switch to it. Oh, yeah, you can't.

"and when the real interface is initiates you mac boys are gonna be real sore us wintel nuts r gonna laugh at you so much......" Yeah, when we're on OS X 10.5 or later, with more features, and speed increases for older hardware. Please, name me one Windows release that has ever sped up older machines when they switch to it. Oh, yeah, you can't.

"and when the real interface is initiates you mac boys are gonna be real sore us wintel nuts r gonna laugh at you so much......" Yeah, when we're on OS X 10.5 or later, with more features, and speed increases for older hardware. Please, name me one Windows release that has ever sped up older machines when they switch to it. Oh, yeah, you can't.

The first thing I thought when I looked at those screenshots was'all this time, and all they have to show for it is the winXP desktop with a new theme.'. I know there's more to it then that, alledgedly, but all I'm really certain of is the stuff they've had to give up on. It's interesting that the company that's supposed to be the worlds greatest IT firm can't manage a project of this nature. It seems to me thast they've just got too big to truly innovate. That's a real shame, longhorn could have been so much more. Perhaps the unoriginal look of the desktop visible in the screenshots is the real reason for their being pulled. People like me might look at it and think they'd not managed to come up with anything new. OK I *did* think that, but now I also think that microsoft have alienated a lot of the wrong people through sending out legal requests. At the very least they could have called and said please.. I'm afraid that the whole longhorn thing comes across as little more then their first attempt at a properly secure operating system, and given what they've had to drop, they're not able to do even that whilst providing something genuinely new and exciting. Personally I'm taking the longhorn release date as the time to finally give up on M$ based software and move on. Where too is a problem. Perhaps it's time to investigate them there Macs..

Why not go and review better projects, www.distrowatch.com is over there -->

Windows is weak, Longhorn will be cosmetic upgrade; Apple can deliver killer blow to Microsoft: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/5589/ The Mac users are laughing heartily at us! And I, for one, plan to join them. Buh 'bye, Microsoft Windows, hello Mac OS X Tiger!!! I'm sick of waiting forever for nothing.

wow - Longhorn will leave the Mac in it's dust. I can't wait to switch over. I have had enough of watching my Mac crash. Silly icons are not enough for us.

"Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places."?!!! Pot? This is kettle. What Microsoft UI _hasn't_ been ripped off from somewhere else? And what's this thing about patenting user interfaces anyway? Are we gearing up for the next round of "look and feel" wars from 15 years ago?

Uh, they already lost the ability to patent this in most of the world due to public disclosure. However, they do have a 12 month grace period in the US and Canada.

My company is ditching it's Macs in favor of PC's. I am feeling a bit isolated as a Mac fan here. Though I guess they have their reasons.

I bet Microsoft were forced to take the screens-hots down because they had Apple's lawyers on the phone. A ****-poor copy is STILL a copy.

With some time and polish, the next version of Windows would almost be useable. So I propose everyone should save their XP budget and wait until this Edsel (er) Longhorn comes out, and just invest in that "dot-zero release" bug farm instead.

They want protection from people stealing their ideas? I would have thought that the screenshots themselves would have been adequate to do just that. I mean it was like playing "where's wally?" trying to FIND the ideas, let alone steal them!

"this has the makings of a train wreck." I'm wondering if this will go the way of Cario and Coplad or Rhapsody. I remember the Mac OS X UI was a sort of polished OS 9, then they dropped in Aqua - and thing looked and appeard much better. If they don't do something like this one will need to start to ask what on earth are they doing over there? And frankly, I don't care if they redo the shell quite a bit. Just get it over with so we don't have to put up with the coporate execs b****ing about how they have to get their users to find the butterfly icon in a different location for too long. If Aero is Luna with transparency and simple highlight effects bolted on, we'll know they listed too much to the banal enterprise customers. A pocket portected with transparency is still a pocket protector. The current GUI sucks, and so does the WinHec gui. Should I take the red pill and get a Mac Mini just so I can have something pretty to look at?

You will never satisfy everyone with a UI. Some people like the Mac OS UI, and others think it sucks big time. The real difference is under the hood, and if Microsoft take the extra time to get that right, then I think users will appreciate it eventually.

"Please, name me one Windows release that has ever sped up older machines when they switch to it." Why do Apple proponents keep trotting this out when it's patently not true? OS X hasn't worked on my Powerbook G3 since 10.1. I happened to be one of the last lucky suckers to shell out money for a "Wallstreet" that can't even run 10.2, not to mention Tiger. Tiger might work on SOME older hardware, not all. If the average lifespan of a Mac is 5 years (which a bunch of Apple people claim), and my 6 year old PB hasn't run a new version of OS X in 2.5 years, that means that probably MORE THAN HALF of the people out there can't run Tiger.

Ahh - Patented user interfaces - oh look, I patented the knob - nobody can use it! What a joke! What happened to real competition - where your features and first to market drove things rather than 17 years and a huge legal department.

MS wouldn't exist if patenting UI was possible.

I'm done thats it, after seeing microsoft keep aero under wraps, juat like they said they would, and then going to the new apple store opening in town, and then reading all the typically negative our lastest point release is the best ever. I've come to the conclusion, that I will wait for longhorn, and all the big changes comming to the notebook formfactor that Microsoft is allready aware of. I've got some friends that are rabid mac fans, and just like here, they never have been able to convince me that I should over pay for a note book either.

I heard a comment somewhere that the sidebar was removed because it also took extra resources unnecessarily. Not sure if that was the reason though.

Two Apple Mac shops closed down close to me within the past six months. Looks like the Mac fans are vocal but not very numerous.

I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places.

Er.. I think this is the other way around. M$ hasn't had an original idea since DOS... no, wait, that was stolen too.

More windows crap. Tiger t-1

Microsoft are smiling. Apple Mac fans are reviewing and commenting on their new OS. As a Mac fan, I would not normally bother to check out a new MS OS, but given all the talk in Mac circles about it, I just had to. I hope I can resist switching over when the time comes for it's launch. :-)

You know what, no matter how crap Longhorn is when it's released, it will still be a major hit because people will eventually buy a new PC and that will ship with Windows. Some people will switch to Mac but the overwhelming majority will still be Windows users. If Microsoft doesn't release another OS after Longhorn for 5 years, at least 50% of 700 million PCs will be running Longhorn. Personally, I like Windows and hope Longhorn is good, but even I am begininng to think that Longhorn looks crap and is just XP with a few tweaks. I think it is shocking that it was publicised last year that Longhorn will ship by May 2006 for sure and now they are talking about it being available for Holiday 2006, (i.e. another October 26th release.) Do they really think that the public has such poor memories and they can just change timeframes without people noticing???

My company is going to toss about 220 "pee cees" and install some brand new Macs. Keep up the good work Windows. HAHAHA

Two Apple Mac shops closed down close to me within the past six months. Looks like the Mac fans are vocal but not very numerous. === None of the Apple Stores close down.. that might have something to do with it...

buy a new PC and that will ship with Windows. Some people will switch to Mac but the overwhelming majority will still be Windows users. If Microsoft doesn't release another OS after Longhorn for 5 years, at least 50% of 700 million PCs will be running Longhorn --------------- Well that's amazing. I'm sure that's gonna be the tagline.. Longhorn: Eventually we'll get money, cuz you can't play Half Life 4 unless you buy a new PC! PS. If you can mod your own PC, ignore this message.

Does Microsoft really think asking anyone to remove these pictures will actually get them off the Internet? A search on Google for "longhorn 5048 screenshot" will yield as top result Paul's screenshot page, and a click on the cached version will show the removed screenshots...Way to go Microsoft!

I love macs, I always go in the apple store whenever I'm at the mall, and play around with one When I feel like it and the wife is busy. I just will never buy one.

Anybody get their copy of Mac OS X Tiger yet? I ordered from Apple.com last week and was hoping I'd get my copy a day early. Hopefully it'll come in tomorrow, but as long as it gets here on Friday, me=happy! I can't wait for this weekend to check out Tiger!!! Meanwhile, Micro$oft customers have to wait another year and a half just for a new XP theme named Longhorn or as Paul Thurrott would call it "Trainwreck"!!! LOL!

Bleh. The new OS system requirements are there because Windows Longhorn only works in CLR (.net language)... supposedely, though... because they made so many feature announcements that they dropped later, it's now becoming harder and harder to know what's true or not. I tried running my soft by compiling it in CLR. Sucked. Somehow slower. I glee by thinking about a whole OS like that.

Huh? MS are worried about people copying them now but not in another couple of months when beta1 ships? Who are they worried about? Apple ship Tiger tomorrow so it's too late for them to copy anything. And the next release of OSX won't be out for 18 months to 2 years so they've plenty of time to copy beta1. Then again, they'll probably have OSX 10.5 out BEFORE Longhorn final at this rate. ;-) Linux KDE/Gnome? - well, they can turn around a feature whenever they want and release it asap. But there's nothing in those screenshots that appears to be patentable unless they think scrollbars in the start menu and the 'Start Do..' button are innovations people want. If we're talking of patents, Microsoft might be in trouble with the instant response search box too. Apple owns that patent already. They filed it in 2001 and it was awarded this year.

"I tried running my soft by compiling it in CLR. Sucked. Somehow slower. I glee by thinking about a whole OS like that. " Wow, if that's you're complaint, you must not have much experience with the CLR or understand what it's about. No, it is not as fast as unmanaged C++. But if you stop there and declare that it sucks, you're missing the point. Actually, languages like Python have been shown to _speed up_ when using the CLR over their C-based VM (search for IronPython for more info, it's now a Microsoft project). Gotta put in a Mac rip here: Spend some time with the CLR and VS.NET and it will expose Objective-C and Interface Builder as antiquiated fraudulent technologies that they are. To the general population: if you think Longhorn will suck, you don't understand the benefits of getting the CLR into the hands of the general population. That aspect of the upgrade alone makes it a huge improvement over XPSP2.

I think the start | Search function is what they are trying to patent. I am not educated as well as some, but I have never seen that in another OS. For me, that would be the quickest way to acces any program. Especially if I could tab up to the closest resulting program as I am typing. Say what you want about pixels, it's the only thing Apple does do right. And if all of you mac fans were all so secure about your OS, you wouldn't be here wondering what the windows camp was up to.

Microsoft's mistake was in hyping Longhorn by saying the new technologies will be longhorn only (i.e. new paradigm), and then dropping/carving/back porting "key" features. I think Microsoft is feeling the heat from Apple. Not that Apple is a threat to Microsoft in the corporate world, but it could be in the personal world because of the snowball effect. Person 'A' buys a Mac and shows it to person 'B' who then becomes a "switcher"/"includer" who then buys a Mac and shows it to person 'C', etc.. Then the more Macs that are bought the more likely applications that are Windows only will get a Mac version which can eliminate the one reason some people do not get a Mac. Microsoft not having Access on the Mac is what kept me from even thinking about getting a Mac.

What do you ****** expect from Longhorn? Why do you idiots complain what it looks like? What are you expecting it to look like? Art? The test is how it will enhance your experience in using your PC and other software products. Dopes.

What can we do? Windows will always dominate so long as people are too stupid to know why Mac is better in EVERY way. So, who cares about the interface? Who cares about quality? Hell, if we cared about quality, would we still have Lotus Notes and all Oracle software except for the database itself? Let's all be sheep. Baaaa. Baaa!

Seems like Pirillo, Thurott et al are just doing a bunch of whining.

The sky is falling the sky is falling. Microsoft is dead Microsoft is dead. lol Naysayers be prepared for the juggernaught that is Longhorn :) I don't think people realize breadth and depth of technolofy Microsoft has in its pipeline. Staggering absolutely staggering.

"Naysayers be prepared for the juggernaught that is Longhorn :) I don't think people realize breadth and depth of technolofy Microsoft has in its pipeline. Staggering absolutely staggering." Uh, like what exactly? Every Longhorn technology is being backported to Windows XP. All those fantastic technologies you're referring to...are available in some form in Tiger NOW. Not two years from now.

Hell, Windows doesn't even have a global spellcheck and dictionary for all text input fields. To me, that's like a fundamental feature I can't live without after using OS X.

Microsoft has a legitimate worry. Anyone remember XBMP/XBMC? "Oh, let's just rip off MCE2004's ENTIRE UI..."

Most MAC enthuiasts equate Microsoft with their client OS when in fact they have hundreds of other products... many of them world class and deployed on a planetary scale. A small sampling appears below :) Small Business Market - Windows Small Business Server 2003 - 86 percent of small and medium companies plan to deploy server according to Yankee group survey. http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P1360 Storage Market - Windows Storage server dominates market in small to midsize companies. http://www.snwonline.com/behind/microsoft_11-29-04.asp?article_id=481 Gaming Market - The next generation X-Box will provide best online gaming experience bar none. The whos who of game developers are now lining up to support next generation platform. We already know who dominates the PC based gaming environment. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/news/2005/0302-okamotomizuguchi.htm Developer Market - we all know who owns this market. Enough said! Database Market - SQL Server 2005 will scale from smallest handheld devices to largest data centres in the word. http://www.microsoft.com/sql/2005/default.asp Handheld Market - http://news.com.com/Microsoft+grabs+lead+in+handheld+market/2100-1041_3-5450022.html Web Portals - MSN is one of the top 3 most trafficed web sites in the world. http://www.msn.com Automotive - http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1433366,00.asp Applications and Hardware Availability - There are currently 91,754 applications and 53,104 hardware devices listed at windows market place. Windows has the largest software and hardware ecosystem on the planet. http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/ Office Productivity - Microsoft Office enjoys over 95 percent of the desktop suite market. Desktop OS - Various flavours of Windows client have captured over 95 of market. Television - http://www.microsoft.com/tv/content/Customers/Our_Customers.mspx I grow weary of typing. I think you get the idea :)

"Gaming Market - The next generation X-Box will provide best online gaming experience bar none. The whos who of game developers are now lining up to support next generation platform. We already know who dominates the PC based gaming environment. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/news/2005/0302-okamotomizuguchi.htm" You do realize the next XBox is based on the same hardware as the Power Mac G5, right? The developer kits for the next XBox ARE actually Power Mac G5's. Yet another example of powerful Apple technology.

For all the people that are complaining about longhorn's looks you have to remember that this is an alpha release. The feature set is not even finalised yet, that happens around the beta stage. You cant get the designers in this early cause things will change. Microsoft has had its designers doing mock ups and they looko good. I guess that what we see is just the framework put in place by the programmers to then allow the designers to wack the look ontop of. If you have a look at the mockups and what we see now you'll notice that all the interface components are in the right places, so I will bet money that be the end of the beta programme this will look fantastic. Also people saying the is just a theme on XP, thats just not true. If you read all the sessions for all the past microsoft longhorn related conferences, you will find there is so much happing its crazy, What I cant believe is how they can have all of what they are promising finished in time. Also about Microsoft droping features, I dont think this is true, they have back ported some at the request of the developers. Simply because developers cant start developing programs using these new technonlogys if they will only work with longhorn. WinXP will have majority install base for a few years after longhorn. When people say that this is the worst we have every seen a microsoft os, this may be true but microsoft have never gone public with alpha releases before, only betas so give it a chance. Note: Mac OS X every alpha screenshots where just as horrible looking.

"Gotta put in a Mac rip here: Spend some time with the CLR and VS.NET and it will expose Objective-C and Interface Builder as antiquiated fraudulent technologies that they are." Objective-C is old and fraudulent? Interface Builder is just a way of designing interfaces, there are about 2 million other ways you could do interfaces besides interface builder.. but.. Objective-C as an antiquated fraudulent technology? Thats uhhh... a very interesting assessment. Apple's implementation of Objective-C is far better than and VS.Net crap I've programed in. In Cocoa I can actually build a web browser with 0 lines of code. I'd like to see .Net do that. Win32 takes a decent amount of code right now just to display a window alone.

Their penetration of the markets DOES NOT mean that the products offered are good!!!! Look at what happened with Sony's Betamax vs VHS, the LOWER quality took the upper hand... Yes M$ has a wide array of products but does that necessarily mean that they are good?? By having a 90%+ market share they lock they're customers in witch SWITCHING COSTS, compatibility issues, etc… They may have the biggest R&D department amongst existing software companies but they will never be able to match R&D effort of a networking open source community!! Relax, the apocalypse is not for tomorrow ;-)

OK hands up, it's over for me. I was a Windows user/enthusiast, but this week is the last straw for me. After it was revealed that Microsoft's association with Ralph Reed ( http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/221811_msftreed27.html ) has apparently led to them withdrawing support for a gay rights bill in their home state of Washington, we have the debacle of WinHEC 2005 and the disaster that is Longhorn. My next computer was to be a Longhorn PC, I don't think I'll live long enough for that, so it'll have to be a Mac.

Simple solution - You want an OS that works, is based on the most secure and trusted bases and a UI to die for? For gods sake wake up and get a mac. It's everything Longhorn wishes it could be but never will and Tiger met almost all it's deadlines and promises unlike MS's DB FAT which lets face it would be the only good thing about this impending longhorn release.

dont bow to microsoft you insensitive clod. microsoft discriminates against gays. hackers have been going in window's back door for years.

Why chose sides between Mac and Windows? why not just use BOTH and reap the benefits? I use Macs (dual 2gig and 17inch powerbook) for TV Production work, and a PC running Win2k for games. PC Users: Give OSX a try, lots of cool software especially if u like playing with media. Doesn't mean you have to get rid of your PC. Have the best of both worlds, GET BOTH. As far as Longhorn? who cares what it looks like now, it has so long to go before its on shelves. people r going to turn off eye candy anyways so it will still look like win2k

This is surprising: FIrst MS come up with a lacklustre build, then start their efforts to obscure the evidence of the mess. This is pathetic and increasingly, MS looks like a loser. That said, I must say it was an early build. The most sore disappointment is the GUI, which plainly sucks and does not offer any improvement over what we already have. Some WindowBlinds skins are better than that. Mainly, when there is nothing underneath,companies rely on eye candy. Here, even THAT wasn't there. Paul has so beautifully summed it up: This has the makingsw of a train wreck. Even then, we should keep our fingers crossed since MS specifically said that this is not the true UI they have in store. And they better come up with something truly spectacular. Otherwise, it would be wise to adopt Object Desktop and build it right into Longhorn!!!!!

That said, I must say it was an early build --- That would be a great excuse, except.. er.. it looked BETTER last year. Yeesh. And we're not just talking about the groovy graphics.. we're talking about the ACTUAL interface, the next version of IE which is too look like Safari's ugly cousin?? Yikes, MS.. I mean.. it's almost as if you're so bored with your 95% marketshare that you don't care about progress at all!

Its sickening, literally, to see how many people don't understand that these are builds for a variety of purposes (some leaks, some intentional), not releases. If Microsoft didn't depend on hardware makers making drivers, this would be an internal build. The build for WinHEC only needs to have enough architecture to build drivers on. The GUI is not necessary. READ: screenshots are the WORST representation of these builds. If you saw something like the sidebar earlier, it will probably be there in the end. Its just not required for this build. Picture the whiteboard at Microsoft's offices: GUI's milestone is not a dependency of HARDWARE build. It may be done, it may be 75% complete, it may be 25% complete. Means nothing to hardware vendors, and would introduce more bugs and unnecessary testing right now than its worth. The theme, the icons (which are only half updated), the totally new 3D accelerated GUI, all of that is not there, and there's no reason why it should be. This build was not meant for public consumption. The assumption that each build includes all completed features to this time, and that all builds will progress linearly and all internal teams submit for each build is juvenile, at best.

www.russianbaby.com forget xp for a while look ant nice amateurs from russia

Microsoft does not discrimanate against Gays, stop making false accusations and taking cheep shots. Apple is very popular in graphics circles because it's a market that Microsoft has left to 3rd party developers. As for hollywood, Apple has has some success there in getting osX used as a platform for Computer effects, such as in sky captain and the world of tomorrow. Microsoft has also joined Apple, Star Wars revenge of the sith was done on Windows XP 64 pro machines, and more to come. There are some things I like about Apple, but Steve Jobs and some Mac fans just turn me off.

"Any final UI stuff will be added in in the last month of testing before it goes gold I figure." - from one of the previous posters This is the problem with the Windows interface. They did the same with the new GUI for XP, and it shows. You *can not* possibly work with a broken GUI for several years and then suddenly add a new one before release and expect it all to work gracefully. The UI is an integral part of an OS, it defines user interactions, it shows developers what they should be trying to emulate, it sets the standard. So to work on a new OS with so many basic flaws for so long doesn't encourage quality work, but lets everyone get away with a 'we'll fix it later' attitude till the last minute. Ironically this reminds me of the Extreme Programming (XP) concept of 'No Broken Windows', and unfortunately MS seem to be working in a very messy environment with Longhorn. Paul, I have to sympathise with you - if they didn't want screenshots distributed and discussed this should have been made very clear to journalists like yourself who came for that express purpose. Perhaps they simply should not have invited the press and made you wait till June when they had something to talk about.

"Patent this look and feel, HAL!" "I'm sorry, Bill, you can't do that."

"Two Apple Mac shops closed down close to me within the past six months. Looks like the Mac fans are vocal but not very numerous." Gee, in the Syracuse Mall, the Apple store opened and is full damn near every hour of every day, and the Circuit City in the basement just started selling Macs. Looks like the Mac fans have more options than ever.

"One of the focus areas of IP protection has been user interface, hence Microsoft cannot permit screenshots of the UI. I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places. They don't want that to happen to Longhorn." My God. Who would WANT to steal that freakin' ugly interface? Is someone resurrecting DR DOS?

"One of the focus areas of IP protection has been user interface, hence Microsoft cannot permit screenshots of the UI. I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places. They don't want that to happen to Longhorn." My God. Who would WANT to steal that freakin' ugly interface? Is someone resurrecting DR DOS?

Screenshots are still up on Flexbeta.net. http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comments.php?catid=1&shownews=12884 Look while you can. Not very impressive though.

How can microsoft claim no one is allowed to post screen shots, because they have to file for a patent, when you can get a look at longhorn by going to microsoft.com and see the entire WINHEC conference from day one, where longhorn was shown? Nonsense...

A mirror of the screenshots can be found at: http://www.collegechixors.com/?p=416

So how stupid can they be to do a large release of a product, beta or otherwise, without first applying for the patents? Just plain stupid if true. Does anyone believe that Microsoft is that stupid?

"One of the focus areas of IP protection has been user interface, hence Microsoft cannot permit screenshots of the UI. I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places. They don't want that to happen to Longhorn." From what I saw of the screenshots before they were taken down, I don't think Microsoft has anything to worry about. The Longhorn UI design will be protected under the Ugly, Souless And Confused Industrial Design Act of 1974.

"As far as Longhorn? who cares what it looks like now, it has so long to go before its on shelves. people r going to turn off eye candy anyways so it will still look like win2k" Why should we care what it looks like now? True, the sterile desktop pictures and over-saturated color scheme can be fixed at a later date, but by now we should be seeing more evidence that compentent interaction and usability designers have been involved in the interface design. Instead, we're seeing something that looks and behaves like a mashup of Bob and WebTV! Usable design can't be applied at the last minute like a coat of paint.

Yeah, cause that Win media player interface rocks so hard. Oh, hang on...

"xp was a massive leap forward from previous bug-riddled versions" News from 16th Sept 2004: Microsoft conducted research in France on Windows stability. Installed crash logging software on 1 million corporate PCs. The results: Crashes per 100 sessions: NT 3% 2000 4% XP 12% Read the full article in French here: http://solutions.journaldunet.com/0409/040915_etude_postedetravail.shtml If you can't read French perhaps that's why Microsoft did not conduct the research in the USA. So much for progress.

Paul said: I noted that "this has the makings of a train wreck." I wasn't referring specifically to build 5048, which is a developer build only, and doesn't show off the final UI. Instead, I was referring to the Longhorn project itself, which is careening so wildly out of control that it may never successfully come to a conclusion Paul, I hope you soon tell us whay yo have made this comment

For screenshots http://www.windowslonghorn.net/

Please stop posting links to the Trainwreck screenshots. They are disgusting to look at, why are there still Win 95 icons in this supposed "next generation" gui?! In 2015, Micro$oft will still be showing betas of their next gen os w/windows 95 icons because they can't get a freakin clue! I just got Tiger by the way from Fed Ex!!! Spotlight is AWESOME!!! It runs circles around my Laptops Win XP puppy search!

But you can still see all the screenshots in the google cache!

"who cares they are not even final production versions." Developers take more than a month to design and develop an application, mate. If you're prototyping for an app targeted for the Longhorn UI you do in fact need to know where things are heading. That's who cares..

paul: do we have ANY idea when Microsoft will show the REAL UI that Longhorn will have? clearly if Longhorn ever resembles in UI what the latest build shows it will be a disaster of biblical proportions. while i am not a Mac user i freely admit that at this point their latest OS is so far ahead of XP and even what we have seen of Longhorn that Microsoft should be ashamed!

For Screenshots of Build 5048: http://www.collegechixors.com/?p=416

what we have seen of Longhorn that Microsoft should be ashamed! -- for god's sake win users vote w your dollars.. MS thinks you'll buy anything. what incentive does a 95% marketshare have. welcome to capitalism, where competition feeds progress.. Apple has to be compelling, they have 2% global share, a 4% US share... MS can keep releasing skins for Windows and assume people will buy it.. as someone else said, because it will come preloaded on every new PC. MS claims to not technically having any monopoly at all.. but really, what are you options.. Try Linux or something.. Macs are awesome, but not everyone is going to even try them because, ironically, of childish reasons like "mac users are elitists".. so try linux.. ANYTHING.. for god's sake, look what Windows is doing?! 2 years from now they're going to release something that is going to look pathetic compared to OS 10.5 If you can withstand the peer pressure from your IT buddies, or the ridicule, get your *** to an Apple store and get educated damnit... *sigh.. and for your hardcore professionals that think about things that are important to IT guys, http://www.apple.com/games/features/

To clarify my statements above: MacOS or Linux is not bad. I have a dual boot for linux and I would install Mac OS too if they would switch to x86. But my point is that Linux or Mac users are often very unfair to Windows. Microsoft may be an evil monopolist but there recent products are very good and have a high quality! Microsoft made many mistakes. But at the moment they work almost perfect. Win9x is just useless. But almost everything after WindowsXP was very good. They may have security problems, but they also improved that in the last time.

To sum it up, WinHell...er, WinHec 2005 has been a complete and utter disaster for Micro$oft just like Billy's Keynote at CES 2005 wher MS products crapped out left and right: Media Center remote=dead Internet conntection=dead Forza demo= BSOD !!! Bill vs Conan race= 2 fps "And did anyone of you see Windows XP before Beta 1? It looked like crap compared to now." XP still looks like crap, and if that were the case then why did Microsoft even add glassy transparency effects/shadows and animate some icons and windows? Because they thought it would impress people but it all just looks tacky and half@$$ed!

Are you all STUPID??? Can Mac OS X use Pixel Shaders to render its graphic??? (If they can, sorry) And what did they actually "drop" from longhorn? Most of the things they "dropped" are simply backported to XP and are therefore earlier available than previously thought. The only thing I miss is WinFS which will come later. All Longhorn technologies are simply incredible. There is almost nothing that has not changed from XP to longhorn (Avalon, Aero, Monad, (WinFS)/Indexing, Indigo, Metro, Driver Model, WinFX API, ...) These technologies BELONG to longhorn even if they are also available to xp. The same applies to Linux. You can patch every 2.6.11 kernel feaure into a 2.6.10 kernel, but the features still belong to the 2.6.11 kernel. Longhorn is the biggest step after the Win 3.11 to Win95 step. And the best thing is WinFX. A completely new API. The next generation after Win16 and Win32. The whole .NET stuff is the best thing Microsoft ever invented. Of course they have just copied the idea from Java, but MS simply did it better (better Framework e.g.). For me as a developer it seems like Microsoft spends much resources at the moment to bring new products with lot of new features. Take Visual Studio 2005 for example. Also a very big improvement and it is the best IDE I've ever seen. And did anyone of you see Windows XP before Beta 1? It looked like crap compared to now. And I hate everyone that flames Microsoft steals ideas from Tiger. The longhorn features were planned years ago and before Mac OS Tiger was presented. For example they showed their indexing plans BEFORE spotlight or google desktop search are actually planned. For me it looks like Mac copied this from Microsoft. Longhorn cannot be a copy of Tiger, because Longhorns development began earlier... I hope this stops you from flaming the best WINDOWS OS ever.

My Newton still works too.

"Are you all STUPID??? Can Mac OS X use Pixel Shaders to render its graphic??? (If they can, sorry)" Uh, yes. "And what did they actually "drop" from longhorn?" WinFS, Palladium, etc. "Most of the things they "dropped" are simply backported to XP and are therefore earlier available than previously thought." Which means there's no reason for Longhorn! "The only thing I miss is WinFS which will come later." You're answering your own question. "All Longhorn technologies are simply incredible." What's incredible about them? Everything you're raving about is available in Tiger NOW. Feel free to pick it up tomorrow at your latest Apple store instead of waiting another two years! "There is almost nothing that has not changed from XP to longhorn (Avalon, Aero, Monad, (WinFS)/Indexing, Indigo, Metro, Driver Model, WinFX API, ...) These technologies BELONG to longhorn even if they are also available to xp." Uh, if they're available for XP, how do they belong to Longhorn? "Longhorn is the biggest step after the Win 3.11 to Win95 step." Oh, please! You're a fanboy whose bought into the hype. Paul Thurrott was saying this exact same thing about Windows XP. Longhorn isn't that big a change at all...as illustrated by the fact that its technologies will be available for XP! Don't you get it? "And the best thing is WinFX. A completely new API. The next generation after Win16 and Win32. The whole .NET stuff is the best thing Microsoft ever invented. Of course they have just copied the idea from Java, but MS simply did it better (better Framework e.g.)." At least you admit that Microsoft merely ripped off what was already there. Guess what? Java is a first-class citizen in OS X. "The longhorn features were planned years ago and before Mac OS Tiger was presented." The patent applications prove Apple started work on desktop search three years before MS. Accept it! Have fun waiting two more years. I'll use Tiger NOW

"And I hate everyone that flames Microsoft steals ideas from Tiger. The longhorn features were planned years ago and before Mac OS Tiger was presented. For example they showed their indexing plans BEFORE spotlight or google desktop search are actually planned. For me it looks like Mac copied this from Microsoft. Longhorn cannot be a copy of Tiger, because Longhorns development began earlier... I hope this stops you from flaming the best WINDOWS OS ever." Ahaha... the Paul Allchin spin machine in full force, breeding new M$ robots. I love when you fanboys refer to Longhorn in the present tense, as if it exists! It won't be out until 2007. Tiger is OUT RIGHT NOW. EVERY FEATURE LONGHORN WILL HAVE, TIGER HAS NOW. Of course Microsoft rips off MacOS. See those pulldown menus you're using? See that "Recycle Bin" you're using? See the desktop icons you click on and drag around? Xerox didn't invent any of that. Apple did. You're one of these new breeds of Windows fanboys who only like Windows because it plays your videogames, ignoring SUPERIOR operating systems that don't have you running with admin privileges and don't get exploited every Tuesday. We're laughing at you right now. Have fun waiting and waiting and waiting, month after month, for another two years! By then, the NEXT OS X will be out...

Windows--for playing videogames. Like the Sims. Macs--for actually getting real work done. I love it. Windows is AGAIN chasing OS X's tail, and the fanboys are out in full-force denial. Why don't you just admit it? Your interface SUCKS, your security SUCKS, your driver support SUCKS, your architecture SUCKS, and your platform SUCKS. There's a reason Microsoft continues to clone OS X. But now, the tech media is catching on, and it's ticking you Windows fanboys off. Funny.

I "liked" Win98 (added multimedia support for home use) and Win2000 (good at work) but rightly called WinXP a "micky mouse system" ... and it seems Longhorn isn't much better! Strangely I find I'm using my Mac Mini more and more now ... could I be ... switching?????

> "And what did they actually "drop" from longhorn?" WinFS, Palladium, etc. Does anyone wants Palladium? No! And they also did not drop it, they only stripped it down. WinFS is not dropped, but comes later. And I don't know another important longhorn technology that has been dropped (sidebar is not important) ------ > "Most of the things they "dropped" are simply backported to XP and are therefore earlier available than previously thought." Which means there's no reason for Longhorn! I answered this already. You can propably patch all changes from a linux 0.1 kernel to a 2.6.11 kernel, but the changes still belong to the kernel on which they are implemented. The same applies to longhorn. ----- > "Longhorn is the biggest step after the Win 3.11 to Win95 step." Oh, please! You're a fanboy whose bought into the hype. Paul Thurrott was saying this exact same thing about Windows XP. Uh, your statement is really stupid. Windows XP WAS the biggest step since 95, because between 95 and ME almost nothing was changed in the os. Windows XP was therefore the biggest step because they included the Windows 2000 kernel and merged the 2 lines. And now the biggest step is longhorn which changes so much that the step from ME to XP is smaller than the step from XP to longhorn. Both statements are therefore right for the time in which they were written. Easy enough? ------- At least you admit that Microsoft merely ripped off what was already there. Guess what? Java is a first-class citizen in OS X. They did not simply rip it off, they ripped it some good parts of Java (the syntax, grammatic) and made it much better with a great Framework and an language independent IL that was designed for more than one language. - And why did I not see spotlight in Mac OS X "Cheetah" if they began so early? The Indexing was available in Win2k, it was simply not used and was not so enhanced. The fact is that a USEFUL indexing (spotlight, longhorn) was first IMPLEMENTED by Microsoft.

YOUR SO WRONG!!! this WINDOWS is gonna kick some major MAC BUTT who cant even play doom3 at more than 50fps!!

Well my fat Robert Downey lookey-likey friend, you are right. Longhorn stinks like a 6 year-old ostrich egg and you are going to be the one with it all over your face if you don't stop sucking up to sweaty Ballmer and bowl-cut Bill.

I would consider me as a IT Pro. I can use Linux and Windows without problems. I never had any problem that I could nox fix myself. I can program in dozens of languages, wrote my own os from scratch, knows quite alot about the kernel structures and functions of both os's and I probably know more about computers than 90% of you. This sounds a little arrogant, but its simply the truth. And I say: Windows has a better overall architecture than Linux. I cannot substantiate this in a few lines, so you simply have to believe me as a real professional. Most of you windows hater simply cannot distinguish between a product and the company. Microsoft is evil, but that does not make their product worse. Linux is open source, but that does not make linux better. You are simply not objective!

Maybe this could be an alternative: www.programmers-source.com/main.php It is just in the beginning but it may grow like linux did...

Date/Time Status Location Comments Apr 28, 2005 8:28 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery OXNARD CA 7:38 am Arrived at FedEx Destination Location OXNARD CA Apr 27, 2005 11:08 pm Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 10:48 pm Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 9:22 am Left FedEx Origin Location ONTARIO CA Yesss!!! Tiger should be waiting for me when I get home today!!! :) Have fun waiting for Longhorn!

Great to see so many Mac fans spending time on Windows sites these days. One would think that their own new operating system would keep them busy, but it seems that the new "Tiger" OS has turned out to be just a miserable *****. The Mac freaks may be annoyed to have to wait so long for the Longhorn alternative, but hang on in there mateys. No point giving out to Microsoft, that won't get the new OS to you any sooner.

"Great to see so many Mac fans spending time on Windows sites these days. One would think that their own new operating system would keep them busy, but it seems that the new "Tiger" OS has turned out to be just a miserable *****." Uh, moron, it's not out until tomorrow. Unlike Longhorn which isn't out for another two years.

"Does anyone wants Palladium? No! And they also did not drop it, they only stripped it down." Exactly! "WinFS is not dropped, but comes later." It's called vaporware. "I answered this already. You can propably patch all changes from a linux 0.1 kernel to a 2.6.11 kernel, but the changes still belong to the kernel on which they are implemented." Your semantics don't matter. Either way, Longhorn is pointless because its APIs will be out for XP. "Uh, your statement is really stupid. Windows XP WAS the biggest step since 95, because between 95 and ME almost nothing was changed in the os." Windows XP is just a rebranded Windows 2000, which is a rebranded NT. Very little changed. Man, you need to do some research, kid. "And now the biggest step is longhorn which changes so much that the step from ME to XP is smaller than the step from XP to longhorn." What changes? It's all available for XP! "And why did I not see spotlight in Mac OS X "Cheetah" if they began so early? The Indexing was available in Win2k, it was simply not used and was not so enhanced." Ahaha. Windows 2000 uses brute-force searching which takes forever. OS X has always done indexing and has in fact always been faster than the Windows method. However, Spotlight was implemented to also search metadata. "The fact is that a USEFUL indexing (spotlight, longhorn) was first IMPLEMENTED by Microsoft." Hilarious! This is the M$ fanboy spin I was talking about. 1.) Microsoft hasn't implemented any desktop search. Indexing is not metadata index search like Spotlight. 2.) You can't refer to Longhorn's desktop search because it's not available--IT WON'T BE OUT FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS. So as you spend each month, waiting and waiting and reading about it for the year 2007 to come, I'll ALREADY BE USING IT in Mac OS X Tiger. Doesn't that make you jealous? That even after we're done with this argument, you'll still have to wait two years for your beloved Longwait?

More, BETTER screenshots: www.winsupersite.com/reviews/macosx_tiger.asp

SCREENSHOTS - Cached by Google! :) http://tinyurl.com/8qmg8

Dear Windows users, Doesn't it suck that, no matter how much you stomp your feet and desperately try to convince us that Longhorn has all these great features, Mac OS X Tiger already has them and is coming out tomorrow? Have fun waiting another two entire years. By then, the *next* OS X will already be coming out with more advanced features than Longhorn. Redmond, start your photocopiers.

You know, there's a point here: 1.) Apple has desktop search out NOW. Not two years from now. That looks bad for Microsoft. 2.) Even if it was true that Apple had copied desktop search from Apple, it only took them two years to get it out, unlike Microsoft who has been working on Longhorn forever. That looks bad for Microsoft. 3.) Even Paul Thurrott--who has inside sources--is saying Longhorn is a train wreck. When are you Windows users going to stop arguing that your failed OS is better and just switch already? You'll have less stress in your lives not worrying about the next "Patch Tuesday."

"Uh, moron, it's not out until tomorrow." ...and Mac fans haven't seen it yet? eh? who's the moron?!?!

Hope Micro$oft dies under ten years. Apple + IBM Rules

"...and Mac fans haven't seen it yet? eh? who's the moron?!?!" Wow. Years of therapy needed for that scathing comeback which doesn't even make sense. When will you get to use Windows Longwait? Oh, yeah, two years from now. I'll be using desktop search and widgets tomorrow. Have fun waiting! :)

"Why not just buy an X-Box and use the rest of your money for a Mac?" ...because many of us just don't have a use for a piece of crap like a Mac

Why do Windows users get so defensive over criticism of Windows? I thought everyone knew MacOS was the better operating system and that Windows was only dominant because of the dominance of commodity x86 systems. I've used Windows since the 3.1 days and have lived through every blue-screen, every DLL hell, every bit of lost data, every crash, every bug. You guys are still running an account with administrator level in the year 2005 when viruses and trojans are running rampant. It's true, Windows really is just for videogames. Why not just buy an X-Box and use the rest of your money for a Mac?

Here you go, Windows users! The countdown to Tiger's global release tomorrow: http://tigerpro.net/projects/tiger/ I'm sure someone could make a countdown for Longwait's release, but it sure would be sad to see it telling you everyday that it's still over a year-and-a-half away. Lol

"...because many of us just don't have a use for a piece of crap like a Mac" My Windows XP machine at work crashed for the third time this week. I've convinced my boss to switch the network over to entirely Macs. We'll never experience those problems again. Face it, you're using an antiquated piece of crap OS. Can you justify running with admin privileges in 2005, the year of Windows viruses and trojans? UNIX and Mac users have been laughing at Windows security for years. So much for "Trusted Computing," haha. I'll be using desktop search tomorrow. When will you get to use it? Two years from now. Have fun during the wait! http://tigerpro.net/projects/tiger/

"When will you get to use Windows Longwait? Oh, yeah, two years from now. I'll be using desktop search and widgets tomorrow. Have fun waiting! :) " This guy/gal is talking to himself... asking and answering his own questions - nice! Don't you just love the little smiley he/she puts at the end. Very cute. Windows would not be suitable for this age range.

You Mac fangirls make me sick. Your so-called "OS" will die out when evryone realizes how **** it is. Longhorn will stamp all over the next "big cat". Waht will oh-so-cool Mr Jobs call the next one - Dingo???

"...because many of us just don't have a use for a piece of crap like a Mac" You're too busy rebooting for the latest M$ patches and fixing the latest Windows registry messup. Meanwhile, I just drag-and-drop the icon to install and remove programs. What do you do? Haha. Click next, click next, click next... Don't worry, you'll get a shiny new plastic OS X rip-off interface in two years. By then, OS X users will still be laughing at you as the next version of OS X comes out with even more features to tromp Longwait (I like that word, lol).

"My Windows XP machine at work crashed for the third time this week." You are such a dumb mutha aren't ya? Do a basic course on computing!! I bet your car crashed a few times in the past week too. If only Apple made cars.....

"You are such a dumb mutha aren't ya? Do a basic course on computing!! I bet your car crashed a few times in the past week too. If only Apple made cars....." Angry that all of Longhorn's features are coming out tomorrow for Mac users? Have fun waiting another two years. Think of all the time you could be using desktop search/widgets/more in the next two years. And then think of how Mac users are the ones who will be doing it. :) That must really make you mad, to be so jealous of Mac users. Someday, you'll stop living in denial and end up buying a Mac and sigh a breath of relief at the lack of viruses, trojans, weekly patch updates, crashes, and admin privilege accounts. Have fun waiting for 2007! I'll be using Longhorn's featureset tomorrow evening.

Help!! My company is going to replace all the remaining Macs at work with Windows machines! I guess I can't escape.

"You Mac fangirls make me sick. Your so-called "OS" will die out when evryone realizes how **** it is. Longhorn will stamp all over the next "big cat"." Haha. In two years, right? Tiger has every single feature Longhorn will have and will be out tomorrow night. I'm being serious here--you should buy a Mac and just get over your denial. We all know you're secretly jealous of OS X. Windows users have always been jealous of it as they suffered through every bad interface design and new trojan hole. Have fun waiting for 2007 to come. That's two whole years. That's enough time for Apple to write ANOTHER new OS X update for Microsoft to catch up to. Microsoft is collapsing under its own weight. Windows--for playing videogames. Like The Sims. Macs--for getting real work done.

"You Mac fangirls make me sick. Your so-called "OS" will die out when evryone realizes how **** it is. Longhorn will stamp all over the next "big cat"." Haha, is that why Longhorn is cloning every single feature of Tiger but wont be out for another 24 months? by then, the NEXT os x release will be coming out. What will you do then? Talk up more vaporware that Microsoft forcefed you Windows sheep. I can't believe there are still Microsoft defenders in 2005. Haven't you guys suffered through enough patch updates and broken security? Aren't you embarrassed enough at your ugly, ugly interface design and confusing system? I've repaired so many broken Windows installs. On OS X i just drag a new application to my folder. To delete it, I just drag to trash. Don't you want that ease of use?

Macs--for getting real work done. What - like designing a new case made from metal that adds 800 bucks to the price. Nice work, bud.

"What - like designing a new case made from metal that adds 800 bucks to the price. Nice work, bud." Mac minis are $500 bucks. Jealous? And what Macs are made from metal? What a downright lame comment. Have fun suffering through the next "Patch Tuesday" and waiting another two years for Longhorn.

I think I know the Mac cheerleader that is writing all the Mac comments here :-)) If it is who we think it is, then he has been sitting at his little Mac for days now doing nothing but typing on these boards. Gotcha!! We will let him be, because his Mac is his only friend. awwwww

RE "I laugh every time I hear or see the word "widgets", even if it is the only reason that most Mac girls can give for their interest in the new "Tiger/pusssy" OS." I see the trailer park is well represented here. Nice work.

"I can understand the Mac girls excitment at the new OS, but then again, weren't people excited when Windows replaced DOS?. I laugh every time I hear or see the word "widgets", even if it is the only reason that most Mac girls can give for their interest in the new "Tiger/pusssy" OS." Wow, it must suck to be so jealous of Mac OS X Tiger having all of Longhorn's features TOMORROW. I hope you enjoy running Windows XP for another two years, waiting for that vaporware Longhorn to show up and have everything that's already in Tiger. That must really suck.

I can understand the Mac girls excitment at the new OS, but then again, weren't people excited when Windows replaced DOS?. I laugh every time I hear or see the word "widgets", even if it is the only reason that most Mac girls can give for their interest in the new "Tiger/pusssy" OS.

Fresh copy of Windows XP Professional--$200. New Dell computer to run your videogames--$1500. More RAM and CPU speed increases to get past all the crashes and bloat in Windows XP--$800. Realizing you'll have to upgrade it all in the next 12 months anyway just to boot up Longhorn and use features Mac users will be enjoying tomorrow evening--priceless.

"I see the trailer park is well represented here. Nice work" You don't have to tell us anything about yourself. Thanks.

"Realizing you'll have to upgrade it all in the next 12 months anyway just to boot up Longhorn and use features Mac users will be enjoying tomorrow evening--priceless." Only if you are stupid enough to buy a Mac-like crappy computer. If you spend the money you mention on a PC and it doesn't run Longhorn, then you deserve to get ripped off.

Wow, this is really sad. Since the release of OS 10.3, it only took Apple 18 months and 6 days to best Longhorn. Wow. What the hell is Microsoft doing? Too busy putting out "Media Center PC" releases or something?

Hi Mac people/person - Welcome to the Windows site. The fact thay you are still here means that you have found Windows technology of more interest to you than that of the Mac.

Patcher XP is the rip-off. Happy patching d00d.

Longhorn = SP3.

"f you spend the money you mention on a PC and it doesn't run Longhorn, then you deserve to get ripped off." Thanks, I'l remember that...in TWO YEARS.

"Thanks, I'l remember that...in TWO YEARS." Wow, and i thought my elderly neighbor who took weeks to remember something was bad.

"Sorry, kidz, you'll need around 3ghz just to run Longhorn comfortably. That must suck. That, and the fact you have to wait TWO YEARS to run features I'll be using tomorrow night. " You have answered the same question twice you moron!! Could you not at least try to look less pathetic?

"Only if you are stupid enough to buy a Mac-like crappy computer. If you spend the money you mention on a PC and it doesn't run Longhorn, then you deserve to get ripped off." Sorry, kidz, you'll need around 3ghz just to run Longhorn comfortably. That must suck. That, and the fact you have to wait TWO YEARS to run features I'll be using tomorrow night. Ouch.

"Ouch" Did someone give you a well deserved kick up the sorry ***? Or are you trying in vain to sound cool?

"Did someone give you a well deserved kick up the sorry ***? Or are you trying in vain to sound cool?" Mommy says it's time for dinner. And no MTV or computer until you do your homework. Doofus.

"Mommy says it's time for dinner. And no MTV or computer until you do your homework. Doofus." Hi Doofus, your reply to that other person was just so witty. You really are hilarious. I can understand your urge to share your amazing wit with everyone through the medium of a tech site.

I don't know how Microsoft is behind the competition in its windows OS, web browser, music store, etc when it comes to quality and features. I mean they have all the money and resources that all software companies dream. They SHOULD have the highest quality software on the market. I don't understand MS. They are just stupid. If this keeps going, they are going to lose market share. Look at IE, it is losing market share so fast to Mozilla. Microsoft has a lot of potential but it's being directed by idiots.

I just tried Mac OS X at school. It was BS. The UI is so confusing. It makes simple OS tasks hard. And Mac thinks they cool by desiging Futuristic hardware and software, well it just looks wierd. The whole Mac experience is wierd. Screw MACs, my PC runs just fine. And stop saying that windows users don't enjoy fast desktop search becasue we can download software from Google, MSN, yahoo and more for FREE. Mac users are paying 120 dollars for a OS update whose only significant feature is Searching. And they claim to be happy. UUuuu I have fast search and I paid $120. I'm happy HAHAAHAHAHAHA. And service packs are not a bad thing. Mac charges hundreds of dollars for their OS updates. Microsoft doesn't charge a thing. So far there's been two service packs for XP. In MAC terms that's like 240 dollars. HAHAHAHa. So, Mac is not that good. And about security, of couse MAC are more secure, since they run 2% of the world's computers. Nobody care to exploit its securtiy holes. Microsoft runs like 96% of the world's computer and of course is a big target.

Mozilla has about a 9% markethshare in the webbrowser market.. not bad

Now I am a hardcore PC guy, but damn has Apple SPANKED Microsoft with their new OSX release. Longhorn is gearing up to be the next windows ME ... I not touching it; and why would you? All of the neat innovative features have been stripped out of the operating system because of "time constraints". F'that ... I pay good money for an operating system and I expect more than half *** work.

"Windows XP is just a rebranded Windows 2000, which is a rebranded NT. Very little changed. Man, you need to do some research, kid." Windows 2000 was not intented to be a "home user" os. Windows 2000 is for workstations. Windows XP is for home users. They used the 2000 kernel but they used it to built a "home user" os. So my statements are 100% correct. ME was the home user os before XP. You should do the research! Also Windows 2000 HAS indexing. It is not enabled by default and the average Mac user is just to dumb to activate it. Do Research! WinFS is also not ViperWare and it is the revolution in filesystems. WinFS was showed in demos before Spotlight and WinFS works with objects that consists of metadata. And for Longhorn I would wait 2 years. Luckily it comes sooner. And don't you realize: Indexing in Longhorn was implemented with WinFS first. And even the stripped down version is better than your Spotlight. Now think of all the features that are not stripped down (Avalon for example). They will kill you! And what I still don't get is your os version logic. So you say everything in a new operating system that can be runned on a older os does not belong to the new operating system??? So in your eyes Longhorn would be a better os if they don't try to be backward compatible and backport a few things? So if Apple decides to bring Spotlight for Panther, Tiger becomes worse in your logic... Uh, Ok...

The reports from those who beta tested the new Mac OS suggest that it is just a minor upgrade when all things are considered. That is disappointing, as it was hyped up so much. It looks like Microsoft could have stumped Apple if they had released even the finished parts of Longhorn as a new OS this week. Anyway, as a Mac user with a new computer on my desk, I am going to continue using my Mac until I get my money's worth out of it. Then I will see what happens next.

Newton Message Pad 2000. Use a Newton Message Pad 2100 and get the future from the past. More than just cool... It's alive ...

For those misinformed Wintards that claim Tiger is nothing special, maybe you're not keeping up on current events: BusinessWeek: 'Tiger bolsters Mac OS X's edge as the best personal-computer operating system around' - April 28, 2005 Associated Press: Mac OS X Tiger 'provides another excellent incentive to switch from Windows' - April 28, 2005 Mossberg: Apple's Tiger 'the best, most advanced personal computer operating system on the market' - April 28, 2005 InformationWeek columnist: Apple's Mac OS X Tiger 'a compelling upgrade' - April 28, 2005 NY Times: Apple's Mac OS X Tiger is the most secure, stable and satisfying OS on earth - April 28, 2005 Wired News: Apple's Mac OS X Tiger 'full of welcome surprises' - April 27, 2005 Windows czar Allchin says Apple copying Microsoft's Windows Longhorn - April 27, 2005 Windows is weak, Longhorn will be cosmetic upgrade; Apple can deliver killer blow to Microsoft - April 27, 2005 Thurrott: 'Longhorn is in complete disarray and in danger of collapsing under its own weight' - April 27, 2005 Thurrott: Longhorn 'has the makings of a train wreck' - April 26, 2005 Thurrott: Longhorn demos 'unimpressive, fall short of graphical excellence found today in Mac OS X' - April 26, 2005 Microsoft employees leaving due to (and blogging about) malaise smothering company - April 25, 2005

Why do Mac users want everyone else in the world to get a Mac too? If everyone else in the world tried to buy one, these Mac users would have a very hard time ever buying another Mac again. Apple is a single supplier. They cannot possibly supply the entire world with computers. Heck, they are having a tough enough time trying to supply the world with MP3 players. The iPod is always sold out and it's very hard to get the one you want. Imagine if that happened with computers... there would be constant shortages... you would never be able to buy a computer! They would always be sold out. Even though you may argue that the Mac is superior, the world is a much better place that the standard in personal computing is NOT based on the Mac. Likewise, Mac users have Bill Gates to thank for the existence of lower priced Macs. If it wasn't for DOS and Windows, which enabled multiple OEMs to develop PCs and cause price competition, a typical Mac would most likely cost over $3000, without a lower priced alternative available. iPods are way overpriced for what they are and you'd see the same pricing if the Mac was the only personal computer around.

um no. mac users want their friends to use macs, because windows is frustrating. apple is a single supplier.. sure but they just outsource the production of their hardware. If demand merits it, they can just keep signing new contracts with production plants in Taiwan/China.. this isn't the problem that Apple faces. The problem is that they have their own monopoly, so there isn't competition driving Apple prices down. In the PC industry HP and Dell are fighting EACH OTHER, but both serving Bill Gates.. so Bill makes all the money and the customers get cheap PC's. Ah,, what you're talking about.. you do have a point, but the thing is.. IBM made this market for computers legit, not Bill Gates, but IBM stupidly thought they would not be 'hacked' so they pretty much were in control of the PC industry as a single supplier but they were 'hacked' (it was inevitable) Actually iPods are pretty damn affordable, the iPod is 50 bucks more than the Dell at 20gig, and it has nothing to do with economies of scale or anything, the Dell has been price-slashed because it isn't selling.. iPods ranging from 99-349 bucks are very competitively priced.. The truth is that Mac users cannot understand why anyone, video games aside, would put themselves through the agony of Windows. And the end result is... most people have heard so many lies about Macs (software selection, pricing, expandability) that Mac users have to get very loud to get anyone's attention. If after a while, people still don't listen, the next assumption is.. "Okay these guys are rubes, they don't want a better product.. " I promise you, Mac users know what XP is like.. we use it at work, or at school once in a while.. we know.. That's why we don't buy PC's for the home. Sadly, the best promotion I can think of would be Apple doing a deal with Sony: Buy a Mac, get $100 off a PS2.

I am a PC user that loves macs. Unforntately the price tag is a bit high. A mac mini or an emac's hardware configuration isn't powerful enough for the types of work i do. However an imac and a powermac g5's price tag is a bit of a stretch if i wanted to increase the memory, hardrive, etc. For example right now i have a dell 8400 nicely priced at 1000 with a 3.0 p4 HT processor, 80 gig hardrive, 17 inch lcd monitor, 1gb ddr2 dual channel ram, radeon x300 SE, and a free printer. This type of configuration for a mac would cost over 2000. You may say that osx will run fine on a mac mini, however a mac mini is not suitable for video editing, gaming, web design, and programming that i do. If macs could tone down their price i would buy 1 in a heartbeat. But as of i now, i am anxiously waiting for longhorn hoping for improvements such that it will be close to osx

I can't get over the fact that Paul actually said something negative about Windows and Microsoft.

I agree with what Chris Pirillo said in Microsoft's pressroom. "When someone asked why they were doing this, Chris Pirillo quipped, "because it looks like #$%," which I thought was the appropriate response." It is embarrasing to me as a Windows user to think that Microsoft would even think of releasing something like this one. I have trouble imagining that they would have released this to anything more than their top brass at Microsoft. The last build of Longhorn at PDC 04 was more impressive than this release. I think that Microsoft is now headed down the right track with the Server 2003 base, you would just think that they would have thought of it sooner.

I have said this to my friends so many times about security holes. There is a reason no one finds holes in Macs, no one uses them, the Windows Platform is 97% of the market. I acctualy learned to hack through the user premissions at my school in less than 2 min. In 4 steps I am no able to change everyones password and any network/system settings. The school runs all osx. Also they have something we call the pinwheel of death, it pops up and your frozen for a few min. There are many reasons people use Windows, they know what they want to do will be able to run on Windows, extreamly large margin of computer profrmance with XP and will be wil Longhorn, from 300Mhz all the way to 3.6Ghz. Longhorn I personoaly think will be awsome, not to mention fast. Remember it is focusing on what a little below main stream will be like when it is released. Not present day. The new features sound awsome, and you really think they would ship the OS out looking that that? (although I don't think it looks too bad), look at the pre beta Whistler pictures, they look much worse. Longhorn seems like it will be a major step, I ask you to go watch Bill Gates Keynote address at WinHEC on Microsoft.com. Oh yes, and why do you care so much about looks, isn't it about proformance and how well it works, and the functonality of it.

"YOUR SO WRONG!!! this WINDOWS is gonna kick some major MAC BUTT who cant even play doom3 at more than 50fps!!" Oh? And where did you buy the special Mark 2 Enhanced Retina Eyeballs that allows you to *perceive* more than 40 frames per second? Let me guess - Microsoft will ship them in time for Christmas 2008.

Ha, reading the comments from defensive Windows fanboys is funny. Your operating system can't even drag windows without visual tearing and hitching, triggering a "Redraw" event for every pixel move. OS X does it all in hardware, so it's incredibly smooth and nice. And you can jerk around a playing video all over the screen, and it will keep playing without problem. Wow. Your beloved Windows can't even drag windows properly. Sad. And it won't even do it for another two years--six years after OS X's initial release.

"I have said this to my friends so many times about security holes. There is a reason no one finds holes in Macs, no one uses them." Hardly. Even the US government is implementing Macs. Guess what the army uses for their webserver on army.mil? It's OS X. How's that for confidence in OS X's security? In fact, the Mach5 cluster built by the army runs 1,566 dual CPU X-serves. OS X's simply are more secure due to the UNIX nature. They don't run with admin privileges the way Windows does, they don't maintain a list of pointless open ports the way Windows does (which is why Windows is forced to include its own firewall while OS X doesn't even bother turning its firewall on, because it's not needed...OS X has no open ports). I seriously doubt your "hacking" story. Sounds like you're leaving a lot out (such as, "So-and-so told me the admin password taped under the desk..."). Just so you know, I'm not bashing you for using Windows. I acknowledge and understand why it's the dominant platform (mostly it's because of cheap, commodity x86 computers that needed a cheap, dirty GUI to run them). But there really is no question that OS X and its API technologies are the superior platform. Tomorrow's release of Tiger just confirms that. I seriously feel sorry for Windows users who have to wait another year and a half to use OS X basics like hardware-accelerated vector drawing, non-admin accounts that actually work, desktop search, etc. Honestly, these are things OS X users have been used to since 2001. It's like Microsoft just recently caught onto the idea. I genuinely don't get anyone who defends Windows in this day and age. The security problems, ancient API design (like someone mentioned above, it's not even hardware-accelerated so your CPU is wasting cycles drawing Luna), and bizarre interface design that get in your way just make it a pain to use. I really think people just use WIndows because their games run on it.

P.S. In case you're wondering more about the Army's switch to OS X, see here: http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/12/2026252 The army moved off of Windows after a successful hack attempt. They switched to OS X. They haven't been hacked since. I don't know what more proof you could need.

For anyone interested in how a real operating system is supposed to work, read Ars Technica's detailed review of OS X: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars There you'll get to read up on all the features Longwait will have two years from now...lol...

"YOUR SO WRONG!!! this WINDOWS is gonna kick some major MAC BUTT who cant even play doom3 at more than 50fps!!" More proof that Windows is just for videogame players. Have fun waiting for 2007 to roll around. We'll laugh at you in the meantime, day after day, month after month...year after year. All the way until the next OS X release. By the way, what system was Doom 3 originally demoed on by John Carmack himself? Oh, that's right. A MAC. Windows users = 14 year olds using their parents' computers and playing warezed first-person shooters. Mac users = people getting real work done.

Poor Windows users. They don't even realize Microsoft is just using them to make money for Intel and other hardware manufacturers, by forcing them to upgrade every year. OS X gets FASTER on each release, on older hardware. Microsoft has you guys by the balls. 3ghz just to boot up your precious Longhorn? Yikes. Good luck in that brave new world. Some people don't even realize when they're exploited sheep.

Ok, listen, you guys can have your little Mac club, but honestly, the reason OSX is so good (and ill admit, its WAAAAAYYYY better than XP, and i am a hardcore MS fan) is because the boys down at apple have it way easy. It's a piece of cake to make software for like 3 different types of hardware, when MS is trying to cater to literally thousands of vendors and system configurations. And sure you guys dont get viruses, thats because no one bothers writing them for Macs! i mean, they want to hurt as many people as they can, so obviously they would go for an OS that has a 6% market share. Macs are great for certain things: graphic design, art, video editing, and sound editing (which is the reason that Carmack tested his Doom3 models on a mac). But i swear, if i hear another comment about how Macs are faster than PCs when the only test you run is Photoshop which was made to run on Apple hardware and a RAM-hungry OS, then i might kill myself. Oh, and the only people who have problems with their Windows PC's are people that shouldnt be using computers anyways.

Best quote in the thread so far: "And sure you guys dont get viruses, thats because no one bothers writing them for Macs! i mean, they want to hurt as many people as they can, so obviously they would go for an OS that has a 6% market share" If the Mac freaks continue to boast about their invincibility, then someone will just rise to the challenge and show you how wrong you are. Be thankful that your minority share of the market has left you unimportant in the eyes of the virus writers.

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW where Paul gets this information about "OSX on x86 this year" from... Why isn't there more information about it? It's really boring now... This news become popular every second month... I hate it. Only pointless rumors but no useful information. (i would like to see OSX on x86)

RE: "I acctualy learned to hack through the user premissions at my school in less than 2 min. In 4 steps I am no able to change everyones password and any network/system settings. The school runs all osx. " Ooooh, you super l33t hax0r! I guess the fact that that you have physical access to a machine that has no Open Firmware password set makes you all elit3! That must really impress your other 5th graders. Pfft.

"Ooooh, you super l33t hax0r! I guess the fact that that you have physical access to a machine that has no Open Firmware password set makes you all elit3! That must really impress your other 5th graders. Pfft." Oh shut up you moron! If that other guy happens to be in your class/school, just pass your useless retort on to him personally rather than posting it here.

Mac for the users that are to dumb to use windows, open every email attachement, dowload and install dialers (because they don't understand the warning messages) and can't configure a pc. Windows for the people that understands computers and who knows how to set up a pc correctly. Everyone who has problems with viruses is simply to dumb. I never have this problems and I don't spend the whole day patching on my os either. And Mac users have so much time drolling in windows forums, because they simply cannot do something useful with their os. And they are luckily throwing money away for a minor os upgrade that does not bring more than a small search utility. We can wait 2 years to get a good operting system that is not just an update.

Avalon is pretty cool. But the shell's user interface isn't very cool-looking at this point.

For the Yawn! commenter, why visit the site if it makes you tired?

Read it and weep, Windows kidz! "Now, in late April 2005, the company is still unsure, amazingly, which features will make it into the final Longhorn product. The list of features that absolutely will make it in is extremely small." -- Paul Thurrott As for the people claiming OS X is susceptible to viruses, IT'S NOT. Even the army (army.mil) uses OS X as their server. They switched after they got hacked when using Windows. 'nuff said. It must suck to be defending an inferior piece of crap like Windows. My window-dragging has been hardware-accelerated for four years now. You're getting it in 2007...

what's happened to the Blogs?

this place sucks nothing but bunch of high e-go mac users..

tiger is a patch, like SP2, lol im surpised so many people actucally think Apple can put some freeware (polished of course) software on their OS and call it holy..

no, reallly, how come the blogs have stopped so abruptley?

You're a wimp for pulling down the screenshots. A real journalist would tell the lawyers to screw off. What a ***** you are.

Just wondering Mac people, how stupid are you guys really? Tiger is OSX, they didn't change much in it. Windows XP SP2 is to Windows XP as Tiger is to OSX, you just have to pay for it. Oh and if Mac is so great why do they have to dumb everything so down to the point where you can't even make your own system. With Windows you can custom configure your hearts out, with a Mac you get only pre-configured crap that you can't even pick what brand. Look at the windows world, AMD vs. Intel, nVidia vs. VIA and Intel. Where is the compitition, all Apple knows is that people will buy there products cause that is all the know how to do. Can you mac users build a computer and configure it your self also go as far as to overclocking. You all wll be drawn back when you see the quad core processors coming out near the end of the year. Double core AMDs kick your dual G5s ***.

"Tiger is OSX, they didn't change much in it. Windows XP SP2 is to Windows XP as Tiger is to OSX, you just have to pay for it." And every revision of Mac OS X has as much innovation as Microsoft can crank out in 5 years time. Apple is waiting to bring something truly revolutionary in Mac OS 11. Plus, the OS X identity is just too marketable

If OSX is that superior, how come we don't see screenshots of it like we've done of Longhorn. What I'm saying is, a product has to be VERY significant to warrant the kind of attention Longorn 5048 is getting from the public (even you Mac fans can't help but jump in). I wager there's more screenshots of Longhorn 5048 in its pre-beta release than there has been of Mac OSX Tiger, a full-fledged operating system. Why? You Mac fans can't hit the "Print Screen" key on your keyboards? Or they don't exist? Oh, and I prefer an OS I can break and fix, and fine-tune all I want (recently installed a stripped-down windows XP, 164MB install disc) rather than deal with a LOCKED DOWN OS. Peace out.

First of all, this is how you introduce a product. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc04/ skip the first 38mins. to get to Tiger. As you can see Jobs demoed Tiger when he introduced it.

Quote: "First of all, this is how you introduce a product. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc04/ skip the first 38mins." Yeah right. Skip the first 38mins. The launch was that interesting was it? Take your foot out of your mouth and try to type something worthwhile with it you Mac idiot.

The MAC enthusiasts have no idea what is coming... Longhorn will contain tecnologies like Avalon, Indigo and WinFS that are being developed by some very smart people. Thousands of man years are going to this stuff. They may just be technical terms now but just wait. The developer productivity these technologies will unleash will be staggering. When Longhorn does ship it will be like comparing a real car (Longhorn) to a Mattel toy (OS X).

I read in a magazine today, "Laptop", Mac OSX makes up less of the market share than Linux. I just had to add that into here. Even more people still use Windows 98 than OSX so tell me, if Mac is so supeior to Windows, why dose a 7 year old program still hog more market share? Also go watch the keynote by Gates at WinHEC to see what is really happining here on the Windows platform, before you bash it.

I read in a magazine today, "Laptop", Mac OSX makes up less of the market share than Linux. I just had to add that into here. Even more people still use Windows 98 than OSX so tell me, if Mac is so supeior to Windows, why dose a 7 year old program still hog more market share? Also go watch the keynote by Gates at WinHEC to see what is really happining here on the Windows platform, before you bash it. _______________________________ What the? thats like saying AOL is the best ISP.?? Just because more people use it doesn't always make it better. Gates' keynote was nothing special or new. It WILL NOT change the computer industry in a dramatic fashion. Looks like MS is release XP SE to me. With an nice price tag no less.

If only Windows and Mac users could kill each other like in the crusades! Then they could kill each other for all 22 pages of dribble I just scrolled through... Judging an OS by the way it's icons look? Pathetic. Because of it's creator? Pathetic. I ask you all-knowing web blogging twits...ah screw it, not even gonna do that.

"If only Windows and Mac users could kill each other like in the crusades!" And here we were thinking that the crusades had nothing to do with Operating Systems... Thanks for your enlightened statement. You can feel justly proud of your comment on the thread. "Then they could kill each other for all 22 pages of dribble I just scrolled through... " You scrolled through the 22 pages of comments? Pathetic!! But at least we have your valuable contribution. Thanks again!!

many so many grumpy windows users....

many so many grumpy windows users.... yeah a shame hahaha

"And every revision of Mac OS X has as much innovation as Microsoft can crank out in 5 years time. Apple is waiting to bring something truly revolutionary in Mac OS 11. Plus, the OS X identity is just too marketable " What are you talking about? MAC OS 11? ahahahahah Jobs said it himself that the developement of MAC OS is going to slow down after the release of tiger.

Stop encouraging people to try or to use MACs. Nobody is telling you guys to use Windows.

Finally, after all these years, MAC is offering a worthy competitor to windows. BUT, that is not going to change the position of windows. The market share will be the same. Windows is supported by a whole industy. Apple is only one company and is never going to penetrate into mainstream computing.

Here's an article that discusses some of the low-level kernel changes in Tiger. http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/4?95050 Take note of the bad situation that existed in the OS X kernel with respect to kernel extensions and with respect to concurrency in the kernel. Seems like Apple has been rushing to get OS releases out rather than taking the time to develop some proper APIs. And would Microsoft ever release an OS that broke Cisco's VPN? Talk about irresponsible. Also, note how far behind Apple is in providing a true 64-bit OS. Microsoft offers this now. So, before Mac users start criticizing Windows, they should look at the mess in their own backyard. However, it has been my experience that most Mac users have no idea about how their Macs really work and what technologies are used internally. Instead, they just recite marketing messages and other bits of fiction gathered from the Steve Jobs reality distortion field. Steve Jobs is a con man. He makes quite a good living selling to the naive people of the world who are willing to pay top dollar for a false sense of superiority over the rest of the world. That in itself is brilliant actually.

Bloody Hell, I don't think I have ever read such a lot of muggy remarks, Windows users with attitude and Mac users polishing their balls. I use both systems and their is absolutely no way that a current PC can touch a current Mac G4-5 for a solid safe user experience, By that I mean using the internet without fear, Blue Screen Death happening when your in the middle of something real important and lastly the most annoying for me, copying of large files and still having a stable fast system to carry on with work that doesn’t become sluggish. Now I am NOT polishing my Mac balls as the argument is still fair that Windows is more dominant on the planet and it has great Legacy support for stuff that maybe in some countries where users maybe don't have all singing and dancing USB - FW - WIFI gear etc their older stuff works and they don't have to buy a whole new system blah blah spend £1000's etc. Windows Longhorn WILL bring the PC platform more up to speed against OS X and hopefully start curing the onslaught of Hackers/Trojans/Virus's that make using a PC and the Net (Nearly everyone does!) a bit more of a satisfying experience, But for the next 18 months XP users will still be threatened by the scumbags out there and you’ll never know if your details etc are completely safe, And just for that one reason alone that means that Microsoft Windows is not fully doing its job as an OS? Surely this is true and I am not being biased in any way, just stating the Obvious!! (BTW I own a Dual G5 and Dual Xeon, They both work like a dream with the apps I use which happens to be audio when their OFFLINE, Get them both on the Net, PC is in trouble All within a few hours - Mac though is always as sweet as a nut...

I come in here and see all these posts of "Mac is Better" or "Windows is Better" and people then talking smack about those people. And now me complaining about all of them. What Mac people won't usually acknowledge is that, Yes less than a week after Tiger was released that it had 20 patches to fix security bugs, and yes windows also has many defects. No software has ever been released to the public free from flaws. It is a fact that we are all the final program testers and we(Consumers) put software through things that software vendors would not think of. Microsoft is a leader in innovation for OS's. Mac, Linux, Unix, Beos, OS/2, Menuet, Solaris there are many other choices for OS. Windows is not where it is because of marketing and developing innovative concepts. Windows has over 90% of the PC market. Mac OSX has turned into Linux/unix. Novell is going Linux. Maybe if Macs cost less people would buy them. That is what works for linux. Walmart Online has $200 Linux PC's. I guess it comes down to, consumers buy what is familiar to them and what they can afford. This is why Mac will never succeed. Students are raised on PC and then stay with PC.

Hmmm... I've seen so many half truths and flat out lies and misconceptions around here on both sides. However, from what I can see, a lot of Windows users haven't seriously used Macs for longer than five minutes before they bash anything about them. They have no real clue about the inner workings of things or the technologies that Apple incorporates into their OS at all. The bad thing is that many OS X users DO use Windows on a regular basis as they are forced to at work and school. Doesn't this say anything?

You mac users and windows bashers are retards. This build of longhorn is still only a very early build, and will improve much more befor it is released. Do you know what excellent games like Halo and half-life would have looked like in their mid-develepment? They would have looked like crap. But now there great. Longhorn will also be great. The UI will be smooth and elegent, the internal workings will be sound, and it will be far more stable then earlier windows. I've used macs alot and found the annoying. They are to rigid, they have there fair share of crashs, the UI is to fruity and fluffy, they have very little support for third party programs, and they are insanely pricy. Window's UI is simpler the Mac's, and I think simpler is better. I think that mac users are just suckerd into Mac by their semi-pretty graphics.

OK, lets level this once and for all, Mac vs PC - you bunch of dick heads. there is no difference they both do the same things in almost the same way they just look different IDIOTS. ok PC's - reality bites, Licensing nightmare, expensive as hell if you actually buy the software you use instead of stealing like I guess half of you do. over 10,000 security holes and with longhorn development going the way it is it won't change much. Mac's nice system based on a Unix core which none of us can argue is rock solid. (UNIX! GET IT THICKO'S! THATS WHY THE INTERNET WORKS NEVER HEARD OF APACHE OR SENDMAIL) pretty limited in some areas but some fairly sharp Ideas very few holes. but look at it like this MS ain't gonna do you any favours and neither will Apple they all are after your disposal income. so all you idiots/morons/******** who think you know something about computers and want to prove this by slagging each others systems off do something usefull and become brick layers because the only people who will help in this current climate are the GPL freeware writers they promote Innovation, where do you think Apple and MS steal all there ideas from. U IDIOTS.

Paul you are nothing but a Microsoft Lapdog. Future names of MS OS. 1. Longhorn (Should be longtooth.) When is it shipping? anyone? ha-ha. 2. Dinasaur 3. OS VV (A pisspoor copy of the world's greatest OS. TIGER!) PC users suck.

The way I see it, M$ is just tring to cover up the fact that 5048 is actually a downgrade. Proof in point: 5048 has the windows xp screensaver where 4074 has the longhorn one.

Let's just stop bickering and wait and see. Mac users use MSN Messenger, a Microsoft product. Why? Apple couldn't provide a good IM program inside their fabled OS?

check this out: http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_1.html now tell me what we have to look forward to??

the spotlight search icon in the start menu is different, the spy glass points to the right, the one in tiger points to the left. anyone that swtiches from mac right now is totally stupid, especially with the intel ones coming out even before 10.5... Dual booting windows and tiger or even leppard anyone? I don't think I'd bother anyways because I'd be running a more stable operating system with the apple software. The only reason mac's crash is because they are poorly maintained or old. My iMac 233 crashes sometimes because it has 96 megs of ram and is running osx panther with a usb 2.0 drive on a usb 1.1 bus and a dual booter with linux ppc. Any takers?