Print - Way to Go: Microsoft Tweaks EU, EU Tweaks Back

WinInfo Daily UPDATE readers might recall something that happened several years ago during Microsoft's US antitrust trial. Claiming that was endeavoring to meet Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's decision to the letter, Microsoft issued a version of Windows that wouldn't boot. A furious Judge Jackson asked Microsoft why it had done so. In its defense, Microsoft coyly noted that the company had warned Judge Jackson that removing Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) from Windows would result in a system that didn't work. Microsoft's childish behavior set the stage for its heated relationship with Judge Jackson throughout its US antitrust trial. And although the company seemed to take a kinder, gentler approach to public relations after Steve Ballmer took over the CEO post, evidence has recently emerged that indicates that Microsoft still hasn't lost that immature and impetuous streak that seems to get the company in so much trouble.

Last week, Microsoft announced that it won't appeal a European Union (EU) ruling that requires the company to meet the terms of its EU-imposed antitrust sanctions while the company challenges them in court. One requirement of the sanctions is that Microsoft ship a European version of Windows that doesn't include Windows Media Player (WMP). The EU asserts that WMP had an unfair advantage over competing players because it was bundled with Microsoft's monopoly Windows product. So Microsoft said it would soon ship a Windows version that didn't include WMP.

The problem is the new product's name. In a clear bid to meet the letter of the EU sanctions but not their spirit, Microsoft decided to name the WMP-less Windows version Windows XP Reduced Media Edition. Seriously. Predictably, the EU wasn't amused. Noting that consumers would be less inclined to choose such a product because of its name, the EU said last week that Microsoft was essentially sidestepping its complaint: By providing a version of Windows that sounds less desirable, Microsoft wasn't meeting the EU requirements because the sanctions require that Microsoft not do anything to make the new product more difficult for consumers to purchase.

Late Friday, the EU said that it was considering fining Microsoft up to $5 million a day unless the company complies soon with the EU's antitrust ruling. The time period for meeting the EU requirements is weeks, not months, an EU spokesperson said.

After airing its preposterous product name and letting the EU vent a bit, late Friday Microsoft suddenly agreed to change the name (the company hasn't yet announced the new name), which I have to assume was the plan all along. "We agreed to make the change in the spirit of compromise," a Microsoft spokesperson said, apparently without irony. "This is in the interest of the consumer." Sure it is. But because Microsoft made this supposed compromise only after the company had already announced the original name, Microsoft appears to be both petulant and contrite at the same time. Neat trick. I'm sure that kind of behavior will help clarify the EU's stance on Microsoft's desired settlement talks going forward. My advice to the EU: Announce that you're willing to settle with Microsoft, then withdraw the offer the next day.

Will WMP be available from the add/remove windows componants section in add/remove programs? Steve

I think this was fu***king great! Funny as *****. And besides, I think MS should even remove their name from the reduced version, and make sure Windows Update doesn't work either. Trying to use WU should only open the UE's www -page. Since it's not a product designed by MS, why should they support it...? *****, I hope that all new software from MS carries a sticker on the box with text "Will not work with "UE Windows". Idiotic decision. Naturally all other OS makerss can put whatever they want in their boxes. That's justice for you.

i think that's great. i wish they would include a non bootable version of windows in the box. F*** the EU!

I look at it like this, if you don't want to use WMP, then put something else on your system. Nobody is forcing anyone to use all Microsoft software. I am currently working on my MCSE and I don't use all Microsoft products. Nobody from Microsoft is holding a gun to my head! I think it's great that Microsoft does this stuff. SCREW the EU!! Ryan

I think Microsoft is showing a bit of ***** in face of the dreary euro lawmakers.

I forgot that was a bad word ! Ha ha, I meant the other connotation of it! The spit 'n vinegar connotation - Stop watching all that p0R n so your minds can clear.

Pretty funny! Who says Microsoft doesn't have a sense of humor? I say F*** the EU! If they don't want to use Media Player then guess what? DON'T USE IT and use WHATEVER THE ***** YOU WANT!!!!!! But don't go *****ing about it; typical European behavior...

I think OS's a bit like life maybe. What was once a luxury becomes necessity over time.

Maybe im slightly biased by actually being in the EU, but I am actually glad the EU managed to force a change upon an American company. I think it was a fair enough request, and makes a change for EU to be setting a few rules rather than the overly dominant Americans. Never the less ... I still have humour and I think what Microsot did was pure cl*** !!!. Brilliant !!!. Im also sure the EU saw the humour of it as well ... theres nothing wrong with a bit of humour mixed into the serious world of business. Good one Microsoft !! Keep up the good humour :)

I think MS should pull XP off the market in the EU so all the EU monkies can pound salt. When they struggle with the various NIX flavors and the EU users revolt... The EU can beg MS to come back... MS can then charge twice as much for all the trouble...

Linux is a pile of dissimlarities cobbled together by innumerable config files. Nary a virus has been written against it, yet they find security holes on it all the time (check RedHat errata if you don't believe me). But since nary a virus is ever written against it, gets by pretty much untested .. and is therefore unproven. Wait 'til a group or various individuals take aim at Linux once it gets a bit poopular - and imagine all thoses newbies running as root - mind boggling. So sure, you can suggest Linux, but I wouldn't recommend it myself. Windows is better. The patching is automatic. There are dedicated professionals updating it. And the future of it is as managed code which will preclude many exploit attempts.

Your anti-European slurs will not be sufficient enough to excuse or overlook the lawsuits and other, similar ridiculous-seeming demands on Microsoft made by several states within the USA, including some from the federal government itself (Longhorn, for example, is already under investigation, before it even hit the market). Stop being ignorant. Either accept all facts and criticize equally, or don't bother criticizing at all.

A user can just download another player, set it as default and get it over with. MS should put some not-so -fine print on the box "Highly reduced functionality". If a user can't download real player or quick-time, they are not the type who's going to use a media player anyway.

I don't understand...What's to prevent EU users from buying the cheaper version of Windows and then downloading Media Player for free? Wouldn't they get all the functionality of a complete Windows version for a lesser price?

It's certainly unusual that it should not be allowed to include it's windows media player with XP but that said, I don't like it anyway. As someone from the EU I applaud the stance to stand up to the company. Microsofts reaction was like that of a childs and it shows that they're too used to getting their own way. Actually, I agree with the above comment that we should abandon MS (even though they have their european base here in Ireland) OSX is much better.

F*ck the EU. Microsoft is a U.S. based company and would do just fine completely disreguarding their ruling!

Great article. Bad comments. Most people don't seem to get the idea of that EU ruling. Americans. Don't expect them to have a brain, they vote Bush!

An Operating system should allow a user to Install the softwares, It shouldn't install the softwares it self or prohibit the user from uninstalling a software. I think IE is just like a Virus inside Windows, It will stop the system from booting, if it is removed completely. Accroding to my opinion, Windows Should be just an operating system to run all softwarers + should give an option to run what a user want or don't want.

Alright you ****ty son-of-a-biggot. Let's go another round. "*winge winge winge*" -- Fine "typical European behavior..." -- **** off will you? Do you KNOW any typical Europeans? Ever looked outside of of your house? You think "typical" Europeans give a flying **** about MS? My issue is with your ****-***ed view on the world. Grow up and gain some respect. In the UK we learn not to paint everyone with the same brush. You dumb dog.

I still don't get why Paul hates the Xbox division that much... I'd never ever read anything positive from Paul regarding the Xbox unit... seems like he likes the Xbox as much as Apple... :P

Firstly, I just want to say that it is disgraceful the sort of anti-european comments people have left here. I don't understand what is causing them to have such unflattering views, considering that their opinions are pretty much irrelevant and neither the EU nor Microsoft has a responsibility towards them nor do they have any reason what so ever to feel so strongly about the antitrust trial. I suspect it is down to national pride and an inner resentment and rascist-attitude towards Europeans (which I doubt most of you could even justify) and thats simply stupid and childish. So to those people who feel satisfied for sharing their opinions, congratulations... we can all acknoledge that you are indeed stupid and childish. Anyhow, in my experience, you can really reason with people like this, so if you are getting hotheaded over my comments, perhaps you should sit back, relax and do some inner reflection. As for the Microsoft vs EU, I think it is fair enough. I like Microsoft as a company and I do think that Windows Media Player is a fine product, but I can also see how it is unfair for other products, which may arguably be even better than WMP (and a few are). So, in reality (and lets be honest), if someone installs their OS, doesn't know much about computers (and thats still most people), if they are already given a media player, whats the incentive for them to try any other ones? Not only that, but why should Microsoft have to make their own media player, if the market was covered well enough? Well, probably because they wanted their mitts in and control of the online music/media biz, etc. But then why couldnt they simply have worked with 3rd parties? It's a mystery. Anyhow, I think distributing 2 versions of Windows is probably not the best idea. Perhaps it would be fair enough to ask of MS to simply have it as an add-on during the installation process or on a Windows Extra pack. Or perhaps even bundle other software as well as their own (it's free, after all, so its not a commercial dependance). There are many alternatives. In the end, I suspect MS will still figure out a way to turn the tables and get the best out of the deal. They always do.

"Will WMP be available from the add/remove windows componants section in add/remove programs?" go steve u rock though u are opinionated. i wouldn't like to get into an argument with you!!

Hi, have all the Americans here ever considered the fact that us 'mere' Europeans may actually prefer to be governed by our democratically elected government(s) rather than some large computer software company from the States? Who does it benefit to have large corporations wielding all the power? To all the people who wrote the anti-EU comments, it does not benefit you in the slightest i'm afraid to tell you. MS has to conform to the ruling of the law wherever it wants to ply its trade, just like the rest of us. I am not one of these anti-corporation/globalisation types either, I happily make my living from the technologies of MS among others. I'd simply like to remind people that it is a GOOD thing that these m***ive multi-nationals still have to comply with the law; and to ponder on the consequences of a (developed) world where this were not the case.

Bloody unelected Eurocrats are a waste of valuable oxygen. If someone doesn't like mediaplayer they can install Realplayer and all the spyware that comes with it. This is a frivilous complaint.

isn't Real an American company? I don't think it was the EU that decided this problem existed in the first place, but Real. It seems to me that the usual American idea of getting into court over every issue and taking advantage of government systems has caused this problem in the first place. The sad thing is that a spat between two American companies has cost the EU money.

I think some of the comments on here may have been by Microsoft employees who are probably even now loading up MS Paint and creating their f*** the eu desktop wallpapers. What they dont realise is that they arent doing themselves, or Microsoft, any favours.

come on, people. IE: From day one, it had gaps wider then the atlantic in it's security routines. almost every other week or more, we see "LOOK! CRITICAL! THE WORLD IS TRYING TO GET INTO YOUR COMPUTER!! .. .. through a microsoft sponsored security hole due to shoddy programming skills. ahem. sowwy. here's the fix, with a 50/50 chance of it's installation buggering up something else in your pc." MS fought tooth and nail to have IE installed as default in their distributions because they knew just what it would do to netscape. decimate it. the browser wars are more or less over with (from what i've read) about 80% of the world's windows users using IE. Why do that many people use a piece of software that has consistently been proven to be programmed by moronic idiots who have never heard of the phrase "test it"? because it's easy. it's pre-installed. It's no-h***le. (apart from when it allows a hacker to destroy your pc and make you a zombie). Even Outlook, because of it's deep interaction with IE has become the cause of half the world's zombie-fied pc's. Get a grip. M$ may be a usa company and you may all be in your highly patriotic mode (presumably juse after watching Team America.. never was quite sure whether that was a satire or a non-fiction flick) but M$ uses underhand tactics to try and become even more of a market leader then it already is. god help us if windows is the only OS in the world, one day. no competition for it, no threats to it's superiority. it'll be even laxer in security restrictions!

The funny thing is the anti EU comments coming from americans are defending what nation? not america, if you think microsoft gives one **** about the USA then your mistaken, they export jobs overseas to cheap labour, get stuff made in US jails for cheap labour (like other US companies) keeping the american economy weak, you forget that the US Government also takes Microsoft to court over similar claims. I remember at once stage the US Government wanted to split MS into an OS company and an everything else company. Don't defend a company that wouldn't defend you.

I think the ludicrous nature of the EUs demand for a WMP-less XP is clearly underlined by the simple fact that the EU is nor asking Microsoft to charge less for it or to block people from downloading WMP onto it. This being the case, what precisely is the point? And why shouldn't Microsoft tell consumers that, thanks to a puffed up bureaucracy, they might accidentally get less for their money?

Microsoft is a monopoly and bullies its way to dominate all markets possible. I'm an American, and Microsoft's policies are illegal in my country. It's just that the weenies in high legal places were *somehow* convinced to not split up Microsoft when they had the chance. While the EU can't split up Microsoft, they can impose other restrictions, and thank God they are trying to do so. Folks, we'd all be using better applications software were Microsoft not running everyone out of the market by "glueing" their software into the Windows kernel. Jerks.

The EU is trying to stop Microsoft from hijacking another market by 'bundling' (or should that be 'bungling') its software. Usually I just don't understand where some European laws are coming from, but this one actually makes sense. Well done the EU.

Actually, these anti-EU comments make me very proud as a European citizen. It shows those poor fellas are actually jealous of something or have something to hate us for, which is a lot better than indifference. A few years back, it would be the other way around. Well, go, Europe, go! P.S. Obviously, I do want WMP in my Windows. On the other hand, it never hurts to tickle a monopoly like Microsoft a bit and show it to behave a little better. Lawsuits have accompanied Microsoft for ages. Despite all of the seemingly favorable settlements the company have reached, I ***ume the monopoly would have been a lot nastier and greedier without the lawsuits.

Noone is forcing anyone to use Windows. If the Europeans are so worried about windows, use Linux, Macs, etc... As a matter of fact, the EU should just legislate europeans to use Linux instead of trying to force their laws on American companies... just like America forces their people to boycott cuban goods.

I must be a real dunce. Why does anybody care one way or another that XP has WMP on board? If they don't want it don't use it! I have WMP, Real and Quick Time because WMP won't play everything. Neither will QT or Real. I must admit I like the WMP format the best! Be well!

But Paul, this penalty by the EU is probably one of the dumbest ever issued. It's absurd. 'Forcing' MS to make it's starter edition would have made sense.

who gives a ****. i don't think im gonna lose any sleep worrying about my computer having media player or not. as far as i am concerned iTunes is better anyway (and works great with my #1 mp3 player, thats right the APPLE Ipod that also doubles as a tiny hard drive)...even at that you could always get wmp after the fact if you were crying yourself to sleep over it. FYI for all you PC lovers...apple was just named the #1 global company for 2004. while you may not care as the PC still has the lead in office oriented application (our company is mostly mac though) apple is gaining more and more every day, while microsoft just seems to be getting screwed, falling unfavorable and even beloved IE is losing usage to mozilla and guess who...safari, appearing on the Mac OS. this is how it starts people. i dont think apple will dominate the market, but the playing field is leveling, slowly but surely

Honestly, you have to admire Microsoft and especialy Bill Gates. Think about how much will power it takes to just point at the EU and say, Fark all your farking iceholes! I could buy any of your countries with the cash in my companies pockets OR in my own! Better yet - we withdraw our product and let any existing support expire from all of your countries. Feel *free* (get it? free?) to use Linux from here on out. All this cause you didn't like the itty bitty media player we hobbled together - apparently no one in all your countries populations can create a better one that people would rather have than WMP.

Spelling and grammer issues aside, that guy has a point. I think he meant, tihnk of the will power it takes NOT to point at ... Why should a government be allowed to dictate to a publically held company how to create and market it's products? How about if the US government tells Firefox to change it's name because it's scary to Foxes or if the US demands that Linux begin being sold only and not given away because it's hurting the other *nix sales.

The EU is right. Microsoft should call it by an appropriate name. "Windows XP for Dummies".

I say let Microsoft package whatever the heck they want, it's THEIR OS, and you're free to download whatever you want after you buy it. Yeah, good idea, lets ship Windows WITHOUT a real (not the company) media player, so users will whine and complain and eventually install even more lookaloke programs on their PC that are just more adware and crap. And good idea, lets let PC manufacturers install Real (adware) Player and other media services that are not fully features without paying a subscription fee. Thank god I dont have the tech support the EU.

The EU decision doesn't make one bit of sense. Since when did governments care that companies provide too much value for a consumer's money? Since when did governments care that companies are making it too easy for consumers to get the services they want for an affordable (even FREE!) price? When did goverments make such a 180-degree turn? And, who is the EU trying to protect? The consumer? Definitely not. If so, the EU would want the consumer to have WMP, because it is easy to use and free. OK, so they are trying to protect other companies who offer similar products. If Microsoft has created such a bad environment for these other companies, they must not have survived all these years of Microsoft's tyranny. There must not be a Music Match. There must not be a Real Player. There must not be a QuickTime. These must not be readily available and popular names, anymore. Oops...They are still popular names and still readily available. Many people have all of these players. (Some of the companies that provide these products were even innovative enough to create plug-ins for WMP so they could provide an online music service, such as Music Match.) OK, so then the EU must not be trying to protect these companies--they're doing fine. So, again, who are they protecting? The EU decision is very dangerous. The EU has set a precedent that it can tell any single organization or individual HOW the organization or individual can package any product, what the product can do, how easy it is to obtain, and--for crying out loud--what it is named, even if the product is completely legal and even useful to the consumer. The EU decision is not about the protection of anyone. It is 100% about control and pride. Get over it EU. Stop contradicting yourself. -Brad from Texas

I think people are unnecessarily making this into a national debate. I think the real issue is that EU is spending so much money to remove a highly useful piece of software from the best OS and doing nothing to get rid of the spyware/ spam and other melicious things. Only an idiot would loose his sleep from the fact that a media player is sitting on his computer, a player that does not cost him/ her anything, doesn't harm him/ her and doesn't infringe on her privacy. As so many people said, whats the big deal in installing something else that you like? Also someone mentioned that IE became popular only because it was easy to get, that it came installed. Firstly, thats not true. IE is popular not because it comes pre-installed, but it is the best browser. IE has been a leader in browser technologies for years and Netscape has been sleeping. It took them so long to even support XML!! People moved to IE not because it was easy to get, but easy to use. Netscape had a delibrate bug which caused IE to hang. That was their way of proving that Ie is bad. Too bad for them as people uninstalled it so that they could work peacefully on IE. MS should at no cost quit the EU market as some suggseted. That would open up the market for other "stupid/ non-functional" OS. Linux included. MS should hold onto their market share. And if the govt. are so concerned about the consumers, why don't they ask the fuel companies to reduce the prices they charge to the customers when the oil prices drop? no their concern is not consumers. they just ahve a personal grudge against MS.

Paul, the EU made another decision, yesterday. You can no longer distribute your free newsletter. It is too easy for people to obtain and provides the same information that other news services and magazines sell to consumers. Your updates are too timely, making it difficult for other technical news organizations, especially printed media, to compete. That fact that you offer both text-based and HTML versions of your electronic newsletter, including an online version, is absolutely unacceptable. Halt now and submit to the Grand EU. Do it now, or we'll make you change the font on your website. Sounds pretty absurd, right? Exactly.

Let's face it, the EU took a look at Microsoft and did the right thing. Everyone remembers the browser wars. IE is still crap, viralware but won because MS "integrated" it into it's OS. Once MS won the browser wars, they forgot to update it, including the security. Now IE is the biggest security threat on the Internet for regular people. WMP is decent. However, I use better. Just imagine the future however. WMP wins because MS "integrated" it into the OS as a "vital" component. MS then "forgets" about it and neglects to update the functionality of its own crippleware, until something better comes along, ala Firefox. Oh, and how many times has MS changed its code to cripple rival software. This is why a monopoly is dangerous. Let it happen here with WMP and tomorrow, only MS products will work with MS Windows. Remember, most people will accept the installed version without giving other players a thought due to the fact that they don't know about other alternatives. Why? MS already makes it difficult to get alternatives to MS "innovative software", aka we bought another technology company. Don't get me wrong, I like MS Windows. It does make it easy for the average joe to use a computer hands-down. That is great. As a model of security, a laugh if anyone suggests that. Lastly, remember the reasons for antitrust legislation. If the robber-barons of the early twentieth century had not been constrained by antitrust laws, you'd probably be paying $10.00 a gallon for gas. Same principle applies to MS. Once the squelch the competition forever, you'll see, and I exagerate, $100.00 a month licensing just to use their software. EU did what the Bush admin's FTC had no balls to do and did a little "market correction". Good for them. BTW... why does the NTOS kernel keep trying to contact MS when it has no business doing so? Kernel's are supposed to run hardware, not spy on us. Anyone?

Note the comments of the above post: * "WMP is decent. However, I use better." Interpretation: There is sufficient competition, invalidating the EU claims. * "MS then 'forgets' about it and neglects to update the functionality of its own crippleware, until something better comes along, ala Firefox." Interpretation: There will always be competition. When Microsoft no longer produces the most desirable product, other products will come into existence to fill the void, invalidating the EU claims. * "Oh, and how many times has MS changed its code to cripple rival software. This is why a monopoly is dangerous. Let it happen here with WMP and tomorrow, only MS products will work with MS Windows." Interpretation: The EU and the US DOJ should stop this ridiculous, spiteful attack on Microsoft and focus on real anti-competitive practices rather than complain that Microsoft is just too good for the competition. "Remember, most people will accept the installed version without giving other players a thought due to the fact that they don't know about other alternatives." Interpretation: People do not know about alternatives, meaning they would not know how to obtain a decent media player if WMP were not provided in the OS. Microsoft is performing a great service for those who don't have the time to research and download media software when all they want to do is listen to music on their computers. "Lastly, remember the reasons for antitrust legislation." Interpretation: The EU and the US DOJ are wasting time and money because they are not focusing on the real reasons for antitrust legislation. Now they are speculating on crimes that Microsoft might attempt in the future, not crimes they have committed. You cannot convict someone of crime that has not been committed. Other points: * "As a model of security, a laugh if anyone suggests that." Fact: No other general purpose operating system offers security fixes a promptly as MS. Other operating systems have just as many security flaws as Windows, if not more. Remember that most successful hack attempts on web sites are against Linux-powered sites...and there are fewer Linux-powered sites than Windows-powered sites. "If the robber-barons of the early twentieth century had not been constrained by antitrust laws, you'd probably be paying $10.00 a gallon for gas. Same principle applies to MS. Once the squelch the competition forever, you'll see, and I exagerate, $100.00 a month licensing just to use their software." Fact: This is speculation, not fact. The competition has not been squelched. There is no sign that the competition will be squelched. Prices are low, and will remain low. Competition is strong. "EU did what the Bush admin's FTC had no balls to do and did a little 'market correction'." Fact: The Bush Admin had the INTELLIGENCE to back off because the consumer would be hurt by the US DOJ's attacks, not helped. However, there has been a recent reduction in intelligence, because they have begun investigating Longhorn because they fear that Longhorn offers too many features...a notion which defies all logic.

Just a question, MS is getting in crap for bundling WMP, IE and all the rest right? Don't most linux distro's and even OSX come with a media player, browser and in some cases office software? I really don't see the point of suing MS, a media player is now an essential part of the OS, not from an operation stand point, but most people most people use one almost everyday. Also, who would pay for a media player (especially that awful real player...), when you should have one free, and do. MS will just offer a download of it for free the first time you visit a site that requires it for streaming media anyway.

My problem with this is I WANT to have Windows Media Player installed when I install my OS.But the EU has taken this option away. Having upgraded many peoples computers over the years, it would be a right pain in the butt to have to download a media player as well. Windows Media Player, Real and Quicktime are not small downloads, and trying to get these things down on a 56k modem is both very time consuming and costly. At the very least it should be cheaper to buy the Windows Media-less version, the difference in price being subsidised by the EU officials that put this into practice. Good on Microsoft though, brilliant choice in names! :)

Microsofts actions (and the comments on here) are worryingly indicative of the way America treats the rest of the world. At least most of the comments on here are probably made by kids, and therefore forgettable. Microsoft, however, could at least treat their customers and their governments with some respect.

So the EU said XP can't have WMP but then said it can't be XPRME either. So MS needs to rename XPRME to XP Without Integrated Media Player or XPWIMP. The French should buy off on that!

Kudos to Microsoft for spitting in the EU's face. I'm with the rest of the folks here who say Fu*k the EU! They can use some other software if they don't like Media Player, no one is MAKING them use it. I agree that MS should have simply declared that they will no longer sell their software to anyone in the EU. Then they'd be screaming for Media Player!

And, Eurpeans complain that we expect them to think like us. In actuallity they are trying to force us to think like them. That will HAPPEN!! GET OVER IT!!!!

I have particularly enjoyed the comments suggesting that Microsoft stop selling their products in the EU - reinforces my opinion that most Americans don't have the first clue how the global economy works. There's a very good reason Microsoft tries to sell in all regions - it'd go out of business if it didn't since enterprises want global solutions. Reality check people - the majority of the comments here just go to demonstrate that Americans have always had a serious problem when it comes to realising that the world doesn't end at their boarders. It's this sort of self righteous xenophobia that justifies the rest of the world's opinion that most Americans are a bunch of illiterate red-necks.

For every EU basher, think about this: Since when do monopolies produce good products? Monopolies produce crap, just like Microsoft. This is common sense - if you have no competition, you have no need to make a good product. Sometimes you get a crappy product when there's competition but it's inadequate or limited. Like before the Japanese started exporting cars to the U.S., U.S. cars were complete junk. Or look at how cable and phone companies provide crappy service and/or high prices. This is almost like an iron law - no or limited competition = crap product. Windows is a crap product, because MS has no competition.

Note to some of the posters, the ones that have done the whining and EU-trashing: When a foreign company wants to do business in the US they have to abide by US business laws, rules, and regulations. That includes things that that company may not do at home, for example FDA labeling or certain food-handling guidelines, or whatever. I'm sure some of the laws probably do not make sense for the foreign company, but they have no choice if they want to sell their product in the US market. So logically as Spock would have it, it should be the same if the tables were reversed, .i.e., an American company doing business abroad. So, what's the problem then??? Sour grapes because the EU dared tell an American company what to do, or what? Just get over it, the EU is considerably stronger than Iraq :) Also, get used to it, the times when American companies told the world what to do and set the standards for all are slowly coming to a end. Expect the EU to be more proactive. And they could even quote your, ehh, "brilliant" leader, "You're either with us, or against us" :P) - A European in the US

PS: >>> And, Eurpeans complain that we expect them to think like us. In actuallity they are trying to force us to think like them. <<< A lot of them do not expect you to think at all, case in point, your last election :)

You know, you gentlemen (and ladies?) from the EU complain about the EU bashers on this forum, but then you turn around and make rude comments about our choice of president and us as well. I don't consider myself ignorant or a redneck and yet I still stand behind our president. You can say what you will, but given the other possibilities (like Al Gore for example), Bush was definitely the better choice. Now to the story at hand. I don't believe this was a necessary step to force MS to remove their media player, but what's done is done. Most computer stores will probably still put WMP on machines when sold and will offer WMP to their customers for a small charge or maybe even for free. I don't think this will have a huge impact as some suggested. It's just a ridiculous move by the EU to exert some measure of control over MS. It was the same over here with the so-called "browser wars". It was ridiculous. While I do not use IE - and if asked will recommend Opera or Firefox over IE any day of the week - I don't believe it's necessary to remove it from Windows. As someone stated above, it's not about monopolies or protecting the consumer, it's about control. God help us all when the governments take control. Does that mean I want monopolistic corporations in control instead? No. But we live in a capitalist society. The market determines the winner, not the companies or the government. We choose with our wallets. In the end, that's the only ruling that matters. - Byron from Iowa

Don't like it, don't buy it. Funny, I can use whatever I have tried with mine......

I love the EU bashers in this discussion. European companies play by our rules and the U.S. FTC - Federal Trade Commission - exerts the same control over European companies as they do ours. The FTC has even told European companies doing a merger: if you complete this merger, you will not be able to do business in the U.S. And for some posters who say forget the EU: your job probably depends on the EU, or China, Japan, etc. Sure, lets stop doing business with them. Kiss your job goodbye. Another poster mentions that Linux comes bundled with a media player. Why yes it does, depending on the distro. Of course you have around fourteen free media players to choose from depending on your taste. Installing with Debian is a snap. Also, one lesson of a monopoly is that when you provide the only product, make 'em pay. In a world with only WMP, Microsoft would charge a fee for the files you view or listen too. Oh, and they would tell you exactly which ones you could and could not listen to re: Palladium. And do not spout any B.S. that they would not do that if they had the chance. MS is a money-making company... and good for them. Under the almost defunct Palladium (now renamed to something else), you would make your own original recording on a CD, stick it in your computer, and you could not listen to it. Why? Because your recording is not Microsoft approved and does not have a DRM marker. And this folks is why monopolies should not exist. Monopolies exert total control over what you can and can not do. Microsoft is out to crush all other media players by any means necessary. By doing so, you would then be locked-in to their product, which they could now charge a fee for you to use... and you could not do anything about it. Many of the posters (or viewers) to this thread probably dislike the RIAA or MPAA for their recent abuses like DMCA, no-knock search warrants (now in Europe and coming soon to the US), and their attempts to dismantle the fair-use doctrine. Old news folks: Microsoft is right there lending a helping hand. With only WMP in the world, their job would be a lot easier. Fancy going to jail for possessing an mp3? It's seven years in the EU now and coming soon to the U.S. Yeh. I can understand why Europeans treat Americans badly in Europe and around the world. Because we treat them badly. Face it. Sorry for this... since this seems to be someone's central theme: As for Bush, he is an idiot. So is just about every other politician - Gore, Kerry, Bush Sr, Chirac, Blair, PM Whatever in Spain, Reagan (yes even him, God bless him) and every other politician in the world (including those new Iraqi ones), etc. Americans don't have a monopoly on idiot politicians. Europe, don't pretend we do. You have your fair share.

tit for tat - I guess ignorance has no borders - Microsoft's greed is phenomenal yet how is the "noble" EU action going to help the EU consumer? With the acceptance of the fine - one hand washes the other... I do not see a noble intent on either side ...

*****There is sufficient competition, invalidating the EU claims. - Only if you know about it without having something crammed down your throat. ***When Microsoft no longer produces the most desirable product, other products will come into existence to fill the void, invalidating the EU claims. -Point: MS has desirability in ease of use instead of security - like ease of use cracking of a Windows box. Linux does need to get with the program by combining the already excellent security with a desktop that will work. Pooh on them. ***Interpretation: The EU and the US DOJ should stop this ridiculous, spiteful attack on Microsoft and focus on real anti-competitive practices rather than complain that Microsoft is just too good for the competition. - INTERPRETATION - marketing is everything and MS is good at FUD marketing. Face it, Windows was widespread in the late 80's. Linux wasn't even invented. By the time Linux was invented, Windows had a virtual lock on the desktop. ***Now they are speculating on crimes that Microsoft might attempt in the future, not crimes they have committed. You cannot convict someone of crime that has not been committed. - INTERPRETATION - This poster would like to be a victim of a crime rather than see it prevented beforehand? Sounds like it. Speculation by law enforcement does prevent crimes. All the time? No. Some times? Yes. Better than just letting it happen and then complaining: "Why didn't the government do something about it beforehand?" *****Microsoft is performing a great service for those who don't have the time to research and download media software when all they want to do is listen to music on their computers. - INTERPRETATION - True. And I applaud MS for making their OS easy to use and crack. Don't forget to disable your scripting in WMP. *****Fact: No other general purpose operating system offers security fixes a promptly as MS. Other operating systems have just as many security flaws as Windows, if not more. Remember that most successful hack attempts on web sites are against Linux-powered sites...and there are fewer Linux-powered sites than Windows-powered sites. - INTERPRETATION - Pure fantasy - See: http://news.com.com/Security+research+suggests+Linux+has+fewer+flaws/2100-1002_3-5489804.html AND visit www.netcraft.com - Apache Webserver - 62.5% of all webservers IIS - Somewhere around 20% *****Fact: This is speculation, not fact. The competition has not been squelched. There is no sign that the competition will be squelched. Prices are low, and will remain low. Competition is strong. - INTERPRETATION - 98% Windows domination is a monopoly - competition will not be squelched due in part to Antitrust actions taken by the EU. And don't forget:-MS has been found to try and introduce "improvements" into the Windows OS that convienently cripple 3rd party software. Clearly an abuse by a company with near total marketshare, aka monopoly, in the OS field- Note to self, Linux is a pain too but patches are quickly available. Beats BUYING and installing the same software over and over again for Windows compatibility. *****Fact: The Bush Admin had the INTELLIGENCE to back off because the consumer would be hurt by the US DOJ's attacks, not helped. However, there has been a recent reduction in intelligence, because they have begun investigating Longhorn because they fear that Longhorn offers too many features...a notion which defies all logic. - INTERPRETATION - Longhorn, a new OS? Hardly. Think of it as an service pack to XP, especially since it lacks WinFS. What bloatware will I get if I upgrade to Longhorn (probably won't)? And, more importantly, what MS spyware will be included with the newest "features". Also, what competing software will it break? Plenty. A note on MS features. Everytime MS updates Windows to the "latest and greatest", removing items such as WMP, etc. becomes increasingly difficult to do without damaging the functionality of the Windows OS. The Windows OS is supposed to let me run programs of my choosing, to remove and replace as I like. I should not be required to have a program like IE (aka Windows Explorer) to enjoy the benefits of a fully-functional OS. Case in point - the registry switch to automatically launch Firefox instead of IE from other applications. Firefox is my default browser and Windows should recognize this. But sometimes, Windows likes to use IE when a 3rd party program launches the browser. Sounds like the poster I'm replying too works for Microsoft.

All in all this ruling is rather positive. It might prevent MS from "integrating" WMP just like they did with IE. Hopefully it will prevent MS producing an OS that is non-functional without WMP.

Why don't you all just let me get on with my job and stop being so ignorant! It's these small minded views that cause the problems in the world that we all have to deal with.

You can sue Microsoft and levy sanctions against them until you are blue in the face, all to no avail. The ONLY way you're ever going to hurt them, whether you are a redneck American or a mindless, spineless European, is to stop buying their products. Whining on either side won't do it. Way too much name calling going on! I like the guy who said, "If you don't like it, don't buy it". Myself, I like it and will continue to buy it.

>>> You can sue Microsoft and levy sanctions against them until you are blue in the face, all to no avail. "Resistance is Futile. We'll ALL be assimilated into the WMP" (Weapon of Mass Propaganda) (Da**it, what did I do with my spine?)

The authors bias is obvious. Is he French..anyway oyu can see where the rest of us stand. Too bad MS would lose to much money if they withdrew their products from Europe. It's just another sign of the widening gap between us and them. My money's on the US.

Hmmm... I just realized... if your money's on the U.S., how the hell are we going to finance next years Federal budget without the European's buying half the bonds necessary to float the President's budget of middle class destruction? I love all this us versus them crap. We are all in the same boat. It's just that the politicos have us at opposite ends. Microsoft is a monopoly. It has been proven that they use anti-competitive means to screw other software companies and the consumer. Anti-trust legislation is meant to protect the consumer from the depredations of monopolies... or do you like being told what you can and cannot have on your computer? If MS had it's way... they would be like the utility companies who just increase their rates at whim and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Oh, because its the EU screwing MS, an American company, they are EVIL. Those damn spineless Euros. For those narrow minded computer lusers out there: Microsoft doesn't give a damn about your opinions. MS is a GLOBAL company who cares more for their bottom line, crushing competition by any means necessary (illegal or otherwise), and controlling your computer than they do for your personal satisfaction. They will screw you, continue to screw you, whether you are European or American, and you don't count. What counts is how many dollars or euros you can throw at their products, good or bad. Get over you feaux national pride for Microsoft and hey, maybe we can all sit down and have a rational discussion. As for the Europeans, good for them. Nuke France. -An American Consumer (Microsoft products included)

As a French, I'm quite surprised to read French-bashing jokes in the comments. This deals with EU, and France is only 1 country among 25 in EU. You know, I'm just coming back from NYC, and I had time to visit the Statue of Liberty. I learnt that the Statue was a present of France to the US, to celebrate the friendship between the two countries. It's sad to see how much our relationships have been degraded (by politicians?). Anyway EU is just trying to ensure that the music player market will remain safe and competitive in the upcoming years and that WMP will win the player battle not because it's pre-installed on 98% of the home computers, but thanks to its qualities. EU is not saying "an OS should include a player", in fact. They are just regulating the European media player market. A sad French (using WMP).

look, we don't like americans and it seems americans don't like us. Fine, if that is decided why can't we just not throw insults at each other?? I've got a feeling that all of ye who make rude comments about the french are doing it because they didn't support bashing Iraq (personally i don't support it either). As for the WMP thing, there is an excellent one (free, of course - and developed in the uk), it will play EVERY TYPE OF MEDIA FILE. It looks nicer, works quicker and has absaloutelty fantastic sound quality. And guess what - it isn't available to the american market!!!:-). - GO EU & THE UK!!!

A question to all americans who support Bush. Do you think that america should rule the world?? Because Bush has addmitted that is his aim!

It's funny how so many people and governments are upset about MS including so many good features that people actually want and use. People complain that it is too easy for viruses and spyware to get into Windows systems, and Microsoft is finally (but slowly) responding with new and free add-on components that will help reduce (but not eliminate) such infections of Windows systems. These components will eventually become part of the OS...but then expect the governments of the world and those on this message board who support the current anti-trust suits to complain that including even those in the OS will harm the competition...even though those governments are currently complaining that MS is not doing enought to prevent viruses and spyware. While making such complaints, those third-party manufacturers who continue to be innovative will continue to prosper. I'm not saying, "Poor Microsoft," here. I'm saying, "Poor consumer." The alleged anti-trust actions by the governments of the world will only drive prices up, not down. Focus on the real allegations of coersion, etc., rather than making it more difficult for consumers to get the products they want! As for those who call Microsoft a monopoly, how do you come to that conclusion? A monopoly means that there is no competition, but competition is quite strong. How many Linux advocates are there out there? Linux use is strong by those who actually want to use it. How many Music Match users are out there? Plenty. How many Opera users are out there? I can go on and on. The survivors of competition are the innovators. Innovation will win out, and so will the consumer. What we are witnessing is the growing trend of liberals around the world saying to others, "You have to like what I like, and do what I think you should do." Those who do not care for or use MS products are the ones who are defending the alleged anti-trust suits. So, it is not about Microsoft being a true monopoly. It is about people wanting more people to use the products that they, themselves, like better. Notice that those who support the anti-trust suits site other products that people should be using, contradicting their own claims of a Microsoft monopoly.

Personally I would just like to say that I'm appalled at the behaviour of virtually all of you, yes it was amusing that Microsoft decided to play its corporate tricks yet again, especially how it decided to do it, but going on to make such remarks “the french smell funny” and f*** the EU, that’s just stretching it. Personally I’m not too happy with the policies and attitudes that the EU is taking on, but you have to respect their decisions. As for those of you who think that Microsoft is an evil corporate bum who is trying to take over the world, you should honestly face the facts. Microsoft has done nothing to hurt you, so go on and complain that you get more products for the same single price. Just to make something clear, I am neither American nor a member of the EU, I am Canadian and if you think that I’m a “socialist” who needs to be shown his place or that Canada is basically an extension of the U.S. then go ahead and revel in your ignorance. Personally I find it annoying how those of you for “freedom of choice” can’t seem to realize that you are basically trying to impose your own views on other people.