Print - WinInfo Short Takes: Week of January 17

An often irreverent look at some of the week's other news...

Apple: Just Kidding, We'll Try to Compete on the Low-End Now
At a riotous MacWorld keynote address earlier this week, Apple CEO Steve Jobs contradicted earlier promises and introduced two products he had previously said Apple would never produce: A sub-$500 Macintosh computer and a flash RAM-based iPod audio player dubbed iPod shuffle. And contrary to my pre-MacWorld analysis of the rumored low-end Mac, the Mac mini, as the computer is known, looks awesome. In fact, it's so good, I expect Apple to sell millions of them this year. We can bicker about the missing features (no keyboard, mouse, or screen--stock components that come with a typical $500 PC, which is also more expandable), but it doesn't matter. By hitting the $500 sweet spot, Apple now has a credible vehicle, finally, for increasing the Mac's market share. And the display-less iPod shuffle? It's a stroke of genius with an amazingly small form factor (think pack-of-gum small) that will also sell in the millions in 2005. I've berated Apple when it does the wrong thing, but with the Mac mini and iPod shuffle, Apple has proven that it can deliver when it needs to. Very, very impressive.

Thanks to iPod Sales, Apple Profits Quadruple in Quarter
Speaking of Apple, the company revealed this week that its profits for the quarter ending December 31, 2004, were up almost 500 percent to $295 million on sales of $3.49 billion. Apple credited the surging iPod for the improvement, and though iPod sales in the quarter fell short of the 5 million units analysts were expecting, the 4.6 million iPods the company did sell is still an impressive number. Even Macintosh sales were up, with Apple selling over 1 million Macs in a quarter for the first time in more than 4 years. Apple's iTunes Music Store, which made only a small profit, has sold over 230 million songs to date, the company noted. Let's recap: Apple's kicking butt with the iPod, and it has a new iPod out that will likely sweep up the two-thirds of the portable digital audio market that Apple doesn't already own. And though the Mac is now stuck with less than 2 percent of the PC market, the recent Mac sales resurgence occurred before Apple announced the Mac mini, which should dramatically improve matters. Apple--and the Mac, from what I can tell--are back.

Intel Ups Revenue Forecast, Cites Huge Demand
Microprocessor giant Intel this week announced that stronger-than-expected demand for its product would increase revenue about 10 percent over previously reported levels for the current quarter. Intel also released positive guidance for calendar year 2005, noting that a successful 2004 holiday season was just the beginning of a strong period of growth. Intel spent much of 2004 fending off its chief rival AMD, which had seized mindshare with its 64-bit AMD-64 platform, now called x64. However, with Intel announcing plans to ship x64-compatible chips in early 2004, then delivering a compatible 64-bit workstation chip in late 2004, the company has largely caught up with its smaller, faster rival. Intel will soon ship a family of x64-compatible Pentium 4 chips as well.

Microsoft CFO Bails on Troubled Company
OK, so maybe "troubled" isn't quite the right word, as the company had $36.8 billion in revenues last year. But Microsoft CFO John Connors said this week that he would leave the company to pursue a new career at a venture capital firm in the Seattle area and spend more time with his family. Connors had been with Microsoft for more than 16 years and had spent the last 5 years as CFO. But the 55-hour work weeks apparently took their toll. Maybe Connors will eventually write a book, which we can hope will be more exciting than "The Fiefdom Syndrome," the snooze-a-thon produced by previous Microsoft CFO Bob Herbold.

IBM Sets 500 Patents Free ... Free As in Beer
Computing giant IBM this week said that it would be making more than 500 of its patents freely available to anyone working on open source software projects such as Linux. The move stands in sharp contrast to the ways in which most corporations jealously guard their patent portfolios, using them as legal hammers with which they can pummel competition. IBM, with hundreds of thousands of patents--it received more than 3200 patents in 2004 alone--is the largest patent holder in the world. In fact, I've heard that the company owns the patents for the color beige, the taste of strawberries, and that weird effect that happens when the moon seems like it's following you home at night. It's quite a company.

Microsoft and Yahoo Begin Eating Away at Google's Lead
A study by Keynote Systems says that search wannabes such as Microsoft and Yahoo are starting to eat away at Google's lead, largely because the rival products are friendlier and provide better-quality search results, according to study participants. The study, which polled 2000 Web users, found "significant improvements" in the search results offered by MSN Search and Yahoo Search, while Google's search results were essentially unimproved. The big problem with search engines, of course, is unwanted results--an area in which all the competitors can improve. Still, Google is likely to retain its search engine crown through 2005. But it will be interesting to see where things stand a year from now.

Yahoo Ships Desktop Search Tool
And speaking of Yahoo, the company this week released its Yahoo Desktop Search beta for Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 (SP3) and higher and XP, joining a suddenly crowded market that includes such companies as Microsoft/MSN, Google, Copernic, and X1. Yahoo Desktop Search helps you quickly find various file types and email messages and provides an interesting preview feature that works with Excel spreadsheets, PDF documents, and other document types. I'll be looking at Yahoo Desktop Search to see how it stacks up against my current favorite solution, MSN Toolbar Suite. You can download Yahoo Desktop Search from the Yahoo Web site.
http://desktop.yahoo.com

AOL's Case: The Time Warner Merger Was My Fault
In a rare moment of candor during an appearance this week at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, former AOL CEO Steve Case took blame for the failure that was the AOL/Time Warner merger. "I probably wasn't the right guy to be a chairman of a company with 90,000 employees," he noted. However, Case took some credit for spreading the Internet to non-technical users and instituting innovative Instant Messaging (IM) features. For me, Case will always be remembered for his stiff, Munster-like appearance and his absolute hatred of Microsoft. Like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, Case was more business man than technologist, and his hard-edged business acumen was what drove AOL to the top. As for the Time Warner merger, well, at least give him credit for actually doing it: At the time, AOL was riding high on the fortunes of the Internet boom, and it succeeded in snagging an established media conglomerate. Not too shabby.

Sony PSP to Launch in US in March
Sony will launch its eagerly awaited PlayStation Portable (PSP) in the US in March at a price of less than $200. Keith Furman and I saw the PSP last week at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2005 and were impressed by the quality of video on its widescreen display. But the real news about the PSP, of course, is the games that will accompany the device at launch. Unlike Nintendo's rival DS device, which shipped with just a handful of titles late last year, the PSP will be accompanied by a much wider allotment of games, including crucial Electronic Arts titles such as Need For Speed Underground Rivals, Tiger Woods PGA TOUR, MVP Baseball, FIFA Soccer, NBA Street: Showdown, and NFL Street 2: Unleashed. But where's Madden? Even the DS has a version of Madden.

"Apple--and the Mac, from what I can tell--are back" Oh, great. Paul's joined the Dark Side. Now Apple has another zombie to spread the word.

Paul gets reamed for talking bad about macs and then gets reamed for commending Apple when they deliver solid products. He can't win. I personally love the whole Wintel world, but I have to admit the low end macs look nice and I always have thought macs had a better ui than windows. But hey that’s my opinion! I am surprised about the whole moon following you patent with IBM, I thought Frank Stallone owned that one.

Chairman Gates: Lord Ballmer. CEO Ballmer: Yes Chairman? Chairman Gates: Rise...

I enjoy reading your stuff but those comments about IBM made me laugh outloud. Thanks for breaking up my lousy, do-everything-the-far-too-complicated-SOX-way-as-we-close-2004, day.

"and then gets reamed for commending Apple when they deliver solid products. He can't win." It's all about consistency. One moment he's bashing Mac fans for their overzealous "I'll buy anything with a Mac logo on it" attitude and the next his eyes are glazed over and he's drooling over their stuff just like a tried and trued Mac fanatic. It makes me wonder when Paul will be debuting his own Mac fanatic web site. MacNexus? The SuperSite for Macs?

I think Paul's reporting is dead on with regards to Apple. When they come up with a great product that will win the hearts of the general consumer, he chhers them on. When they release stupid products that no one but Apple addicts will buy (iPod Photo) or make a really poor business decision that slows their growth (iTunes only works with iPod, and the reverse) he points it out. I don't think people should be going at him over it. When was the last time a dedicated Mac news site talked about what a great or cool thing Microsoft just put out? SP2 is a great update, but instead of cheering Mircosoft for its commitment to fixing its past mistakes they atteck it for even being necessary in the first place. I like the honest, though sometimes mocking, reporting Paul does.

The Mac Mini is a stupid idea. Without a keyboard and mouse, they haven't hit the sweet spot of $500. Anyone can see that. And low-end windows boxes even include a monitor. Price conscious consumers will do better elsewhere. And if they make one more all white product, I'll puke.

I wish Mac users had Blueberry or Strawberry ip addresses. Then we could block them from this site.... Oh, well.

I think a Mac computer without a keyboard and mouse is brilliant! Now I vote that they take all of the keyboards and mice away from current Apple users and I can start enjoying the comments section of this website again.

I read somewhere else that in the UK a Mac Mini can cost you up to $1,000 if you pick and chose top end parts inside, or something to that extent. So it's cheap if you want older version hardware, but if you want something newer like a bigger hdd etc, the price just rises up on you. I haven't checked this out personally but anyone interested in it can check out the UK shops i guess.

I love coming to these PeeSea forums. It's like getting to hear the trailer park's opinion without fear of getting mugged.

"Like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, Case was more business man than technologist..." Hmm, I seem to recall that Gates hand coded the original Microsoft Basic in assembler. And I have always had the impression that guys like Ballmer handle the business end at Microsoft. Fact is, Gates is a geek.

Hmm, I seem to recall that Gates hand coded the original Microsoft Basic in assembler. And I have always had the impression that guys like Ballmer handle the business end at Microsoft. Fact is, Gates is a geek. ------ Ballmer's a shmuck. Gates is the greatest businessman in history. The technical stuff, fittingly considering Windows outdated offerings, is secondary. Gates understands tha Value more than anyone else. If Ballmer were 'whacked' the company would barely take a hit. Gates? Sell sell sell... Okay that's a cold hearted thing to say about two great guys.. Gates is the best businessman ever.

1.42GHz PowerPC G4 $599 mac: 256MB DDR333 SDRAM ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB DDR video memory 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive Combo drive DVI or VGA video output AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth (optional) what a rip off. not even a screen. I can make a bare PC for that money that can woop that mac's ass. Or order a dell for that price with a monitor keyboard, twice the memory http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_dp_desktop1_2?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs the only downside is the intel graphics chip but A radeon 9200 is crap. So upgrade both computers to at least a 9600 and still the pc is a way better purchase, and it's a computer you can actually use.

not only that, for 18 bucks add a 80 gig HD. Substract the monitor and keyboard and still beats it. Also this mac uses the crappy G4 cpu. an outdated clunker that has to sweat to keep up with a celeron. If you buy this mac for this price, you're getting ripped off as usual. It's not expensive. But it's all outdated hardware.

599 shoping around gets you a mobo, case memory, video card, HD, AMD cpu, and even some sound card. And you're likely to get way more performance out of pc hardware for that price tag. Once again mac's got it wrong.

"In fact, it's so good, I expect Apple to sell millions of them this year." Huh? In the "Cheaper iMac? Who Cares?" article still on your front page, you appear to claim nobody will care about this. Now you're expecting millions of sales. In fact, you said this: "As usual, rumors are swirling around this year's MacWorld event, and many observers expect to see a $500 iMac based on outdated PowerPC G4 processor technology. But anyone who's interested in such a device is missing the point: Apple conceded the PC market years ago, and its line of Macintosh computers now constitute little more than a niche market. No, the news from MacWorld this year will be all about consumer electronics and whether Apple can do anything to build on the iPod's success before Microsoft's PlaysForSure cabal crushes it like a bug." Apparently, you've changed your tune.

1.42GHz PowerPC G4 $599 mac: 256MB DDR333 SDRAM ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB DDR video memory 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive Combo drive DVI or VGA video output AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth (optional) what a rip off. not even a screen. I can make a bare PC for that money that can woop that mac's ass. Or order a dell for that price with a monitor keyboard, twice the memory ---- That's fascinating.. what the hell country do you live in where first-rate Digital Media creation Software is free? How much would you pay for Apple security? Even if you pay an extra hundred bucks a year, you still won't have Apple's secure OS. You're talking about an out-of-date.. I could get a refurbed Mac running OS 9 if you wanna compete in the 'POS' category..

Poor you Paul. Re: Apple, damned if you do damned if you don't! Thanks for rising above it all ;)

"I love coming to these PeeSea forums. It's like getting to hear the trailer park's opinion without fear of getting mugged." Awwww don't worry. Now Apple is whoring itself to the cheap side of the market, you'll prolly feel more at home at the Apple iTrailorPark instead. Now we know the PC did it first, but then it’s not done right until Apple does it of course. Plus you won’t have to worry about being mugged in the iTrailorPark either. You just have to agree with everything the attendant Steve says, otherwise he’ll set his pack of rabid iChihuahuas on you, and we all know how nasty they can be!

"I think a Mac computer without a keyboard and mouse is brilliant! Now I vote that they take all of the keyboards and mice away from current Apple users and I can start enjoying the comments section of this website again." Ha Ha... Very, very good. ;cD

Eating crow - I predicted Paul would blast the Mac mini and iPod shuffle. I was wrong. Now it's time for Paul to admit HE was wrong about the iPod mini and the iMac G5. Particularly the iMac G5 - this machine is selling very well.

PC users just don't get it......you will ALWAYS be able to find some piece of crap system made in some sweatshop in the Phillipines for less than the cheapest Mac. It's about the software bundle stupid. You don't get a dumbed down OS (ala XP Home) and you get a kickass bundle with iLife. Plus the things just looks kewl....unlike the mindless PC crap that's out there. As for the G4 sucking....give me a break. Here's a news flash for you - the P4 is a piece of crap. Clock cycle for clock cycle a lowly P3 will run rings around it. Yes the P4 runs at x.0Ghz, but you need a generator to run it and you can use it to heat your house. That's due to an inefficient design. The G4 in contrast evolved from embedded systems. Where things like heat and battery life are bigger considerations than raw performance. The original Power PC chips never even had heat sinks because they didn't need them! Now that Intel has finally hit the performance wall even they are coming to the realization that a balanced system design is more important that just a fast CPU. Morons!

Anyone who thinks mac won't sell because it "doesn't come with a keyboard or mouse or screen!" is missing the point. How many people like spyware and viruses? How many people would pay additional money to rid themselves of it? I'm sure plenty of people since they waste tons of cash trying to prevent them on their PCs with Norton and so forth. You can't really compare a 399 dell that is loaded with horrid Software and ads for you to mess with. Great it comes with a crap monitor and cheap mouse. At least you'll have those components when you purchase your $500 mac.

The idea behind the mac mini, is that it is geared towards people that already own monito, keyboard and mouse, because they already own a computer, an old mac, or, hopefully, a PC. So complaining that the mac mini doesn't have a monitor and keyboard is just a silly remark- because that's the whole point about it. Those without the accessories can always get an eMac for 300$ more. And then there's the sheer beauty of it, the incredible size and elegance. With that, absolutely nobody in the PC wolrd can compete. Sorry.

I want some of you PC neanderthals to come onto one of these boards with an actual "been there, done that" response instead of all of your uneducated banter!! Most everyone has used a Windows machine and understands the problems inherent in its inferior design (from OS to whatever Dell knockoff is popular this week), but from what I can tell most PC users have this fear of Apple and instead of testing one out for themselves, rely on flip-floppers like Thurrott to make their decisions for them. How many of you have never tried Hardees because you know you like McDonalds? Until you find out for yourself the quality and convenience of the OSX platform SHUT THE F#(|< UP!!!! loki

I love those price comparisons. Leave out the FireWire, GPU, Enet, sound, and you haven't got a comparison. Add those things in and the Mini starts lookin' pretty *&#$ good. Add in the $1000 worth of software and it's no contest. Drop a Mini in alongside your PC system as a stylish accessory and it looks even better, and that's how it's intended. An iMac makes for sense of you need a complete system. (Except Apple's ridiculous price for 1GB RAM upgrade.)

This just in ... Microsoft's Operating System Software Manager has just renamed their main project from Longhorn to Shoehorn. "After realizing that Billy's original plan for a superior computing experience was beyond our means and capacity, we decided to take the major chunks of the new OS and fit them into our current product. Renaming the project to 'Shoehorn' shows the direction we're now headed in. Of course, having realigned our goals we can say the target release date for 'Shoehorn' will not budge from our new 2008 goal. In the meantime, we will be releasing two updates to XP, called 'XP mini' and 'XP shuffle' ..." XP mini lacks the need of keyboard and mouse, because we removed any kind of user input interface. We believe that not wanting to interact with your computer is the next trend in computing. XP shuffle will come with built-in artificial intelligence ... instead of the user needing to tell it what to do it will just randomly do things for them. These two products reflect a recent survey where a majority (~95%) of the people stated they were just tired of dealing with their computers... Now they won't have to. They can simply upgrade their XP systems to one of these!

Why does everyone think that the mini is Apples answer to the "sub-$500 market" when clearly its not. What it *is* is the answer to all those jackasses who wanted a "headless Mac" that they could bolt whatever display they liked on to. Steve did not deliver a "cheap" product, he delivered on that was "componentised". Justifiable difference, and not inconsistent with previous assertions - you *cant* get a whole mac for <$500, just like he's always said.

"Yahoo Desktop Search beta ...joining a suddenly crowded market that includes such companies as Microsoft/MSN, Google, Copernic, and X1". Hmmm. Yahoo Deasktop Search was licensed from X1.

As an aside, has anyone noticed the form factor? I just looked at small form factor PCs. PCs that are 6.5" wide, 6.5" deep, and 2 inches tall? The cheapest one I could find was $892, by the time I finished putting in a Combo drive, upping the memory, adding a modem, etc. Hell, cappucinopc wanted to sell me a Pentium III for $1000! Personal opinion: Apple will never be able to compete on price because the PC World will always ignore what Apple accomplishes and point out, instead, that they can build themselves a PC for $99.95.

... ... ... Thanks, Mac users for coming up with coherent arguments about the uses of the Mac mini... obviously the trolls have no sense, or ability to compare properly the discriminate differences between Windows and Mac OS. I too, would like to see the PC TROLLS come up with experiences that are negative about the OS -- the key word here is "experiences" -- without degrading the argument into, "I can build a warez pC for cheeP and addkeyboard montiro and stuffs and beet th panst off the mini.. stipud POs mAC dudez... " blah de blah blah... ... If the PC folks stop talking out of their collective ASSES and make a real argument, rather than Gates-fanboy excuses for apologizing for that worthless OS, maybe the Mac users will listen. 'nuff said. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..

FYI, to the rabid iBot above me. You don't need to waste space with all the linebreaks and "..."'s. It doesn't make your point (if you had one that is) any more relevant. Personally, I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why I should buy a Mini from the Apple fans. So called "coherent arguments" like "It's oh so small!" and "It's oh so pretty!" don't really wash with me no matter how excitingly presented they are by the Apple fans. Contrast this with the disadvantages of the Mini such as lack of expandability and compatibility, and the PC side continues to make a lot more sense to me. I can follow the argument of spyware/viruses to a degree, but then it comes off as just pre-programmed mindless droning by the iBots. I have a PC and a laptop, and it takes minimal effort on my part to secure both. I think what the iBots have to realise if you jump up and down screaming at me that I have a problem when I don't, I'm just going to walk away and you have lost a convert. Now I have tried to like OS X, but I just don't find it as compelling as you guys want to make it out to be. I found the interface quite frustrating at times and non-intuitive. The “Dock” down the bottom of the interface in particular. It’s an awful, confusing homogeny of a launcher and task manager. Tacky interface elements like the slide out side panels I also found quite distasteful and unnecessary. Even worse, on the PowerBooks I found the interface to be slow. It took forever to launch applications, and the cute little bouncing icons on the Dock didn’t make it any less offensive to me. Given I assume I am going to get similar performance from the Mini, then I am in no mood to rush on over. Nor did I find the iLife applications that compelling. I’ve heard the iBots mindlessly drone over and over that they are the best thing out, but I’ve never actually seen a single compelling feature presented to me. Sad to say, I am not surprised. iBots seem to think their rabid enthusiasm for the platform equates directly into a convincing argument- No it doesn't guys! Well that’s it. I am sure I have just kicked the hornet’s nest of rabid iBots here, but given they are so obsessive in converting people over to the “right” way, perhaps that information may be of some use to them. Cheers Steve

Steve, Steve, Steve. Keep hitting yourself of the head with a plank of wood. You obviously like torture even if other people tell you it's not good for you. You obviously have much different criteria on judging if a product works for you but don't dismiss others with insulting names just because they don't like torture.

"Steve, Steve, Steve. Keep hitting yourself of the head with a plank of wood. You obviously like torture even if other people tell you it's not good for you. You obviously have much different criteria on judging if a product works for you but don't dismiss others with insulting names just because they don't like torture." Obviously you don’t know me from Adam, so please do not be so rude as to try suggest what I like doing, or to tell me what you think is good for me. I hardly think you are qualified- in fact I am sure of it. FYI I coined the term iBots as shorthand to refer to the notoriously rude, seemingly mindless segment of the Apple user base whose whole function in life seems to be to trawl the net spewing out nothing but pre-programmed blurbs from Apple marketing material, or to automatically attack anyone that dares to suggest anything remotely negative of Apple. You are mistaken in thinking I am referring to Apple’s users in general when using that term. I mean, it’s not like you went on the attack after I had simply given my reasons for why I’m not that excited about the Apple Mini or OS X is it? Now please, if Apple’s products works for you go right ahead and use them. I won’t be so rude to suggest that you are “torturing yourself” just because you choose a different product than I do. That would just be encouraging the sort of group thinking I would attribute to an iBot and we definitely don’t want that. Steve

"I can follow the argument of spyware/viruses to a degree, but then it comes off as just pre-programmed mindless droning by the iBots. I have a PC and a laptop, and it takes minimal effort on my part to secure both" Well that's fine and dandy for you ... that doesn't solve my problem... the countless number of Windows users who approach me to fix their computers after they've been overrun by those malware/virus things. The funny part ... I'm not even a Windows user. I'm usually working away on my iBook when they come up to me and start asking questions. I'm fed up with it. They get two answers from me now ... #1 Backup and reformat every month or so or #2 Get a Mac. With #1, they say, how do i do that? With #2, they say, Macs are too expensive. I can now say, well spend $499 on a new Mac or about $50-$100 on anti-malware/spyware/virus software and an additional $75 per hour for my time. Most of them are usually too cheap or too broke for either, so their computer never gets used again. Percentage of platform users technically savvy enough to manage their system... 99% Linux users, 89% Mac users, 9% Windows users. ;-)

“Well that's fine and dandy for you ... that doesn't solve my problem... the countless number of Windows users who approach me to fix their computers after they've been overrun by those malware/virus things.” Yes it is all fine and dandy for me actually, because you know what? I simply don't get other Windows users running at me from all directions asking me for help in uninstalling spyware/viruses. It simply doesn't happen. This is exactly what I was talking about. If guys like you keep jumping up and down whining how hard we have it, and it doesn’t actually match the reality of the situation, you just come off as being dishonest and with an agenda. Further, your statements that “I'm usually working away on my iBook when they come up to me “ and “their computer never gets used again” just smacks of absurdity. I can’t believe you honestly expect anyone to believe this, but then I suspect you are being anything but honest. "Percentage of platform users technically savvy enough to manage their system... 99% Linux users, 89% Mac users, 9% Windows users. ;-) " All figures pulled straight out of your a$$. Much like your imaginary friends I suppose. Steve

Steve, while I can't agree with the interface issues you brought up, I do commend you for actually speaking from experience. I honestly believe it's the first post of it's kind I've read.
The problem I've come to realize is that people are getting the impression that the mini is supposed to be a "Mac", as in the high performance computer that the line has become well known for. But it's a damned good average user, home computer. Especially for the price and feature set.
loki

I find the ceaseless trolling and zealotry from all sides to mind numblingly stupid: It makes no difference whether you use a PC, Mac or are in love with Linus, being a zealot simply makes you blind to the relative merits of the various platforms. My last job was administrator of an all Windows shop and I have a PC and a Mac at home. While I have nothing against Microsoft or Windows per se, I do much prefer the Mac's tight integration of hardware and software and the BSD based OSX. But that doesn't stop me from using my PC as a gaming platform, because games are obviously more available there. However, from years of experience, even with XP SP2, I find that Windows is worse in the hands of a non computer literate person or newbie, and those people make up the vast majority of computer users - not everyone is into computers and understands security as people here do. That said, I wouldn't cry if I could only use one of the two platforms, be it WinXP or OSX. It's a tool to do a job, not a girlfriend.

"Steve, while I can't agree with the interface issues you brought up, I do commend you for actually speaking from experience. " Thanks. Look I know some of these may be attributed to the "cognitive dissonance" of having used Windows for years and then trying something new, but some of the interface elements of OS X I really just honestly dislike. I could have gone on, but since I suspected the only responses I would get would be the usual knee-jerk responses of “Wintard” etc I thought a smaller sample would be fine to express that not everyone is wild about the Mac interface. Your statement about the Mini … Yeah! I keep seeing the Mini pushed as the device to make the masses switch over to the Mac which I find frustrating as it then suddenly becomes politics and everyone is picking sides, calling names at each other etc. I just wanted to express that it certainly isn’t the device that is going to make *me* switch over, and hopefully gave clear enough reasons. Having said that, the most positive thing I could say about the Mini is that I hope it resurrects the old home computer market of yesteryear which was occupied by the Amiga and Atari ST. Ok, they weren’t very expandable or compatible with the mainstream, but they left very fond memories in the hearts of anyone that owned one. If the Mini brings some of that back I am all for it. Steve

Let's see a sub $500 PC is better than a Mac Mini. Hmm! Let's look at the keyboard and mouse. Can one say el cheapo. I guess this is why the after market Keyboard and mouse business is so good. So, no benefit there for the sub $500 PC. Let's look at video. Cheapest out their and shared with RAM. Mac Mini has medium-to-upper end 3D graphics (not top-end, mind you) and dedicated video. Let's look at storage. HD's about the same. Superdrive not too much of an add-on. DVD burners have down lately. Slight edge to PC. Let's look at memory. Base memory of 256K average, but 512K is really what should be included these days. Remember that on sub $500 PC's one doesn't have 512K because one has to subtract the video RAM from this memory. The 1Mb RAM is still too expensive these days on both PC and MAC side. Call this one a wash, but it does bump the price slightly higher to upgrade the Mac Mini. The Mac Mini doesn't come with a monitor, but sub $500 PC's usually come with an inadequate monitor, which is typically upgraded to at least a 17" flat panel these days (i.e., from 15" Flat Panel and/or 17" CRT). If one already has a monitor, skip for now for either option and upgrade when you want. Finally, let's look at base software. The sub $500 PC predominantly comes with Windows XP home. So, to get any real work done and have real control over your system, one needs to add the upgrade to XP Pro. One also needs to add Virus Software and out-bound Firewall, plus malware software, none of which is needed currently on the MAC, although virus software may be needed in the future, but not the others given the BSD core for the Mac OSX. Mac Mini comes with iLife, so one will need to add on to the PC some additional software other than the trial versions shipped with most PC's. Probably another $50-100 to match up. Finally, one would want to add MS Office, which is usually a cheaper option for Windows PC because OEM's get a better price break than after market. The end result if one already has a monitor, is a price difference of probably less than $100-200. As long as one didn't need PC specific software and one was tired of the security issues and malware of XP, the Mac Mini does have a good selling story. It isn't bottom line, but it isn't high-end either. It appears to fit into a nice niche in the market, especially when combined with the iPOD Halo effect. Plus, it doesn't take up any space, per se. P.S. One feature that Mac OSx has that Windows needs is Expose. As we get more and more applications open, we need a better way to switch between them and manage the open windows. For those who don't know, Expose (quickly) scales all open windows to miniture versions on the desktop at a single keystroke (F9), so one can choose another open window. Upon selection, the windows go back to the normal size with the selected window on top. This should be built into the OS.

"I simply don't get other Windows users running at me from all directions asking me for help in uninstalling spyware/viruses. It simply doesn't happen." Uh. Just because something doesn't happen to you, it couldn't possibly happen to someone else? Whenever I am in my local coffee shop with my 'laptop' every now and then someone will approach me and ask if I know anything about computers... My first question is always "why?" They usually tell me they're having problems with their computer. Is that really so hard to believe? Most of them don't know anything about computers. They just got one to surf the web, etc... So when their computer starts acting funny, slowing down, no longer booting, they have no idea what to do with it. All of these people are using Windows computers. They were not told about viruses or spyware when they bought the computer. No one asked them how experienced they were using a computer. They are lost. Some of them even purchased new computers because their other computer became useless to them. Whether you'd like to believe it or not, there are millions of people out there like this and guess what? They are all running some form Windows. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Windows - it's certainly not Microsoft's fault these people don't know what to do with their computers - I'm just stating a fact. Yes I use an iBook, but some people don't know that it's a Mac, they just see it as a computer. So yes they still approach me. And after I tell them it's a Mac, they'll usually ask "What's the difference?" If YOU don't think there are people out there that are like this, well that's great for YOU, but they do actually exist, a lot of them. Just go ask a sales person at BestBuy or CompUSA. I'm sure they have a ton of stories. "All figures pulled straight out of your a$$" Yes they were in fact. It was a joke... that's what the "wink" meant... ;-)~ And speaking of a$$... calling someone a liar for posting experiences that you find hard to believe just because you've never experienced them, really makes YOU the a$$. I don't believe my post above said anything about You other than it's dandy for you to be able to secure your computer with minimal effort, but that's not the case for some people I've encountered. I've been using and programming computers since the pre-Mac and pre-Windows days. Later in college I worked in the computer lab where we supported Macs, DOS/Windows, and Unix systems. Afterwards, at a company I worked for I did part-time support for Windows 95 systems, when the IT staff got too busy. And as I said above, I've helped many people with their computer issues. I choose to use Macs, because they work in a way that best fits or matches the way I work. It's a more comfortable environment for me. I don't have any problems with people using Windows or even Linux. Good for them. I don't even recommend people to buy a Mac unless it's truly going to benefit them in some manner. Anyway, to stay on topic... the Mac mini is an awesome little machine and anyone who is tired of the virus issue on their PC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them getting one, and I'd even offer to help them get started with it.

"Uh. Just because something doesn't happen to you, it couldn't possibly happen to someone else?" You initially claimed "countless Windows users"… an army of complete strangers walk up to while you are “usually working away” on your iBook and ask for help because they have been "overrun by those malware/virus things". You were then supposedly able to determine for “most of them” that their "computer never gets used again" after having received your ultimatums of buy a virus checker and pay you $75 an hour, or get a Mac. Sorry, but your supposedly honest account smacks of exaggeration and flat out contradictions. “Whether you'd like to believe it or not, there are millions of people out there like this…” When did I claim otherwise? I know this from my own experience. I am simply querying the generality of the experience given the wild exaggerations I see perpetuated by Apple fans. I do not think it's the norm and I haven’t had any facts presented to sway me otherwise. I certainly do not find your exaggerated and seemingly dishonest account enough to sway me. “And speaking of a$$... calling someone a liar for posting experiences that you find hard to believe just because you've never experienced them, really makes YOU the a$$.” No it just means I do not believe you. Grow up and get over it. "Anyway, to stay on topic... the Mac mini is an awesome little machine and anyone who is tired of the virus issue on their PC, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them getting one, and I'd even offer to help them get started with it. " If you are going to tell people to jump to the Mini simply because they are fed up with viruses, then do me a favour. Please stop giving advice because you are bad at it. The Mini may not even do everything their current PC does. It’s a base device. Steve

“Mac Mini has medium-to-upper end 3D graphics” Sorry, but are you on crack? The Mini is on the low end of the 3d spectrum. Cards like the X800 and 68000 series represent the high end these days. To say the Mini’s card is approaching these is just being delusional. Look to at least a ATI 9800 or NVidia 5600 to represent the mid range- at least on the PC side. I am not sure how things fair on the Apple side, but you guys seem to generally be a bit behind the bleeding edge. “…to get any real work done and have real control over your system, one needs to add the upgrade to XP Pro” So you think the average XP user needs the web server components of XP Pro, or Terminal Services to get any work done and have real control over their system? If not, which other components of XP Pro are you referring to? “malware software, none of which is needed currently on the MAC, although virus software may be needed in the future, but not the others given the BSD core for the Mac OSX.” Malware is certainly possible on a Mac. I have a good chuckle every time I see people claim they are technically impossible because of the BSD core. Malware and Spware are just applications. Any dolt Mac user can be just as easily convinced to install and run one of those “free smiley’s” applications as any dolt Windows user. Yes, Mac is better secured to minimise this by default, but don’t say such a thing is impossible. “It appears to fit into a nice niche in the market, especially when combined with the iPOD Halo effect” Ugh! You have overdosed on Apple promotional material- gag! LOL I agree overall that the Mini does fill a nice niche in the market anyway even if I thought some of your assertions and comparisons were a little out there… Steve

Steve you wrote: Sorry, but are you on crack? The Mini is on the low end of the 3d spectrum. Cards like the X800 and 68000 series represent the high end these days. To say the Mini’s card is approaching these is just being delusional. Look to at least a ATI 9800 or NVidia 5600 to represent the mid range- at least on the PC side. I am not sure how things fair on the Apple side, but you guys seem to generally be a bit behind the bleeding edge. The mini-Mac has an ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM with AGP 4X support. Most low-end PC's may do fine with 2D graphics, but their built-in, shared video is in no ways medium quality. You focused on 3D, my comment was meant to mean overall graphics quality. While the mini-Mac doesn't have top end 3D quality, on the overall graphics scale it is meduim quality, with the low-end PC's, which can do 2D graphics well, but struggle with 3D graphics. You also wrote: So you think the average XP user needs the web server components of XP Pro, or Terminal Services to get any work done and have real control over their system? If not, which other components of XP Pro are you referring to? When one has to boot into "safe mode" in order to perform administrative functions, like installation of some software, I would state that XP Home is crippled. In the home environment, where one has multiple users of a machine, XP Pro provides the necessary capabilities to manage multiple user accounts with some having basic user rights and select having Administrative rights. If the machine was to be used by a single person, then maybe Home edition is okay, if one could solve the administrator account access issue. Finally, you wrote: Malware is certainly possible on a Mac. I have a good chuckle every time I see people claim they are technically impossible because of the BSD core. Malware and Spware are just applications. Any dolt Mac user can be just as easily convinced to install and run one of those “free smiley’s” applications as any dolt Windows user. Yes, Mac is better secured to minimise this by default, but don’t say such a thing is impossible. While it is technically possible for viruses, malware, and like to run on an Unix based platform, the impact is several degrees less and usually only impacts the current user. Applications can't be downloaded and executed automatically behind the scenes. It takes user interaction and usually executables have to be marked by the user as being executable. Windows could be a lot more secure if it got rid of ActiveX in the browser. Since the browser is part of the OS, which it should have never been, this makes the OS insecure. Want to stop Malware, get rid of ActiveX. Why do you think Firefox is so much more secure than IE? The other avenues of entry, such as email vulnerabilities, have mostly been addressed with SP2 (as long as the user follows the recommended security lockdowns implemented in SP2).

A comparison of the mac-Mini to entry level Dell is available here: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/01/miniapplesandoranges/index.php?lsrc=mcrss-0105

"Most low-end PC's may do fine with 2D graphics, but their built-in, shared video is in no ways medium quality. You focused on 3D, my comment was meant to mean overall graphics quality." I didn't focus on 3D- you did with the comment "Mac Mini has medium-to-upper end 3D graphics". It's on the low end of the scale when mentioning 3d. It's a fine 2d card yes, but then as you say anything can do 2d nowadays. Overall I would place it on the low end, as 3d is the real differentiator of graphics cards nowadays and it isn’t going to give you medium level performance there with a paltry 32 meg. "When one has to boot into "safe mode" in order to perform administrative functions, like installation of some software, I would state that XP Home is crippled." You are just being ridiculous again. You expect a non-power user who has just bought a $500 "grandma" level PC to be booting into safe mode and doing command functions- give me a break. I'm not sure what you are going on about with admin etc. Home also supports the concept of multiple accounts as far as I know? I do think this area is Windows biggest weakness in this area atm, and one where OS X is ahead. They need to fix this with Longhorn. "While it is technically possible for viruses, malware, and like to run on an Unix based platform, the impact is several degrees less and usually only impacts the current user. Applications can't be downloaded and executed automatically behind the scenes. It takes user interaction and usually executables have to be marked by the user as being executable." "Several degrees less" is a world of difference away from impossible. I wish you Mac guys would learn not to *exaggerate* the issue. Something I berated a previous poster for. FYI your second statement simply isn’t true. Just Google “OS X Virus” and “OS X Malware” and get learning as sticking your head in the sand and pretending “It’s not possible because it’s a Mac ™” isn’t going to help when the virus/malware turds come. Security through obscurity does far more to prevent virus and malware outbreaks on the Mac than BSD IMO. Steve

Comparing the Mac mini to an entry level PC is well, comparing apples to oranges. The latter is a cheap assemblage of parts and loosly integrated software. The former is a tightly integrated device that lends itself to the entry of someone's desk, kitchen counter, or living room entertainment center (automobile, even) far more easily than cheap PC. Paul is disengenuous. I wish he'd stop pandering to his audience and right what he truly thinks. If it is a well-formed opinion, then it stands up. When he writes articles like these: Thurrott: Apple copying Microsoft's Longhorn search features with Mac OS X 'Spotlight' - December 15, 2004 Thurrott: Mac 'doesn't offer much value over Wintel-based systems' - November 01, 2004 Thurrott: 'Give Microsoft credit for leading the way in digital entertainment' - October 15, 2004 Thurrott: Apple's 'iPod Mini isn't a sales phenomenon at all' - March 25, 2004 Thurrott: 'The Mac market is ending' - March 08, 2004 One has to wonder. I'm not knocking Windows, it does that on it's own pretty well. Give Gates his due and Jobs his due.

Steve, you write "Several degrees less" is a world of difference away from impossible. I wish you Mac guys would learn not to *exaggerate* the issue. Something I berated a previous poster for. FYI your second statement simply isn’t true. Just Google “OS X Virus” and “OS X Malware” and get learning as sticking your head in the sand and pretending “It’s not possible because it’s a Mac ™” isn’t going to help when the virus/malware turds come. Security through obscurity does far more to prevent virus and malware outbreaks on the Mac than BSD IMO. Steve, can you name a virus that has effected OSX (not OS9, not MS Word, but OSX, itself)? Can you name what the security vulnerabilities are that have been found? Let me give an example. One vulnerability is a boot time if you hold down a combination of keys on the USB keyboard, you can bypass normal security. Of course, you can do this on other OS's too (or at boot time choose to boot in single-user or safe mode). If one has physical access to the machine, you don't have security. There have been Apache vulnerabilities and ones with other software that is optional to run, but a lot less prevelent than IIS, Windows XP, Outlook, etc. In fact OSX, which is no longer a newbie OS, has had one of the best security records (by independent security experts). It isn't security through obscurity. The OS kernel if fully open-sourced and based on another open-sourced OS that has had years of scrutiny.

“Steve, can you name a virus that has effected OSX (not OS9, not MS Word, but OSX, itself)?” Google "OSX Virus" Switchback http://www.lowendmac.com/lite/03/0813.html That was hard… "Can you name what the security vulnerabilities are that have been found? " Google "OS Malware" http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/0,2000061744,39164062,00.htm or Mac OS X security myth exposed http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798 That was hard too.. *rolls eyes* Please stop wasting my time if you can not be bothered to do a modicum of research.

Steve your last response is very humorous. I hope you meant it as humor and don't actually believe what you wrote. I hope you actually read the links you provided. If you had, you would have seen that the so-called virus isn't a virus by the standard definition of a virus. It might be called a "philshing" or similar attack in which human engineering of the attack is prevelent. If you read the background discussion thread for the second link, you will see that the vast majority of responses were that the attack was one of a system that was somehow physically comprimised where the OS X rootkit (or parts of the rootkit) were installed. Finally, if you read the last article and went to the Secunia web site, you will see that OS X has 39 vulnerabilities listed (many involving other open source software like Apache, that may or may not be running on a typical user's install--since these apps are turned off by default on installation). You will see that there is only one unpatched vulnerability. If you go to the XP Home stats, you will see that 58 vulnerabilities are listed with 24% unpatched. XP Professional rates worse with 60 vulnerabilities and 25% unpatched. These aren't my words. Read your links yourself. Again, I hope this was an attempt at humor and that you weren't serious with your post.

“Steve your last response is very humorous.” Thanks. :c) “I hope you meant it as humor and don't actually believe what you wrote.” Every word of it.. :c) “If you had, you would have seen that the so-called virus isn't a virus by the standard definition of a virus. It might be called a "philshing" or similar attack in which human engineering of the attack is prevelent.“ True I wouldn’t call it a virus, but it is still obviously a script that was able to propagate itself from one OS X box to another silently. Almost sounded like a cross-site scripting attack. I thought you said this was impossible? I assume this exploit has been corrected, but it was there at some point. " If you read the background discussion thread for the second link, you will see that the vast majority of responses were that the attack was one of a system that was somehow physically comprimised where the OS X rootkit (or parts of the rootkit) were installed" I did read into the background of the Opener Malware Worm after I had made my original post. It was an interesting read including responses from people who didn’t think their machine has been “physically comprimised” (sic). http://macintouch.com/opener.html Get reading. It suggests numerous potential security vulnerability’s around this Worm. I think the consensus was that the worm required some vulnerability to be installed, but I haven’t seen a consensus on what it was exactly. “Finally, if you read the last article and went to the Secunia web site, you will see that OS X has 39 vulnerabilities listed (many involving other open source software like Apache, that may or may not be running on a typical user's install--since these apps are turned off by default on installation…” Give me a break! Now you are just being flat out dishonest by attempting to brush off many of the OS X exploits listed by trying to blame it all on “other open source software”…. Laugh your head off, but the facts are: OS X has had exploits. Many involving OS X itself or Apple applications such as iChat and Safari. OS X will have exploits discovered in future, both in the OS and Apple software installed. If Apple ever gets any marketshare, somebody is bound to come along and exploit them. Steve

“XP Professional rates worse with 60 vulnerabilities and 25% unpatched. These aren't my words.” I don’t believe “XP has less security flaws than OS X” were my words either. I do believe however that “XP.. rates worse” are very much your words in a way. They just come off as some sort of smug commentary on your part when it simply wasn't required. A sort of childish dig because I dared to suggest that OS X also has exploits. Steve

True I wouldn’t call it a virus, but it is still obviously a script that was able to propagate itself from one OS X box to another silently. Almost sounded like a cross-site scripting attack. I thought you said this was impossible? I assume this exploit has been corrected, but it was there at some point. Say what?? Silently propogate. One had to convince a user to go to the website. I would hardly call this silently propogate. This is nonsense. Listen, I don't use Mac OS X. I use Windows and I am tired of the crap out of Microsoft these days. I am attempting to take the devil's advocate position because so many here have blinders on and think we all live in some magical Stepford world here. The fact is IE needs to be updated and we as customers shouldn't have to wait until Longhorn for this revision. I as a customer shouldn't have to replace my system also when Longhorn runs, just because someone in Microsoft thinks we need to up the memory or CPU requirements by bloating software so greatly that it won't run on existing hardware. I have installed XP SP 2, I have a hardware based NAT Firewall. I don't have ports open on the Internet. Yet, I know that my system is still vulnerable, for one reason--the lack of security in XP due to Active X. My hope is that the continual improvement in OSX and Linux will actual grow their market share so that there is some competition. Without this hope, we are left to the whims of Microsoft and the drive for the almighty dollar over actually satisfying customers. Their drive will make them a has-been in 10-15 years, or whenever Bill and Steve decide to retire. The company will not survive when they leave. When are they going to wake up and take a long term strategy. There original idea of a computer on every desk and every home was something I could latch onto. Lately, they have no vision. Sadly, they have abandon their passion and desire and only focus on the bottom line. Apple is one of the few companies left with a passion. There goal isn't domination. Heck, they don't care if they ever get majority of the desktops. There goal is to produce a product that will work for consumers. Last time, I checked, they seem to be doing a lot better job of it than Microsoft lately. There latest financial show growth and improvement. Microsoft's financial shows status quo. There hope for growth is subscription based software. Where is the wow in that. The fact is OSX is a better OS and Microsoft's answer is wait for Longhorn, it will be the most innovative and secure OS yet. Where have we heard this before? Let's see Windows 2000, Windows XP. I thought they stated that these were the most innovative and secure. Steve, open your eyes. Try to argue the other viewpoint and see where it leads you. You will realize where your own favorite OS is lacking. Then, as a consumer demand more. Microsoft can do a lot better. They did in the 80's and early 90's before they grew to monopoly status. I long for that company to return, just as the fire in Apple has returned. We need some life in the computer business.